Why the aren't boat design comunity like open source programing? or is...?

I am sailing for 17 years. I have decided to create and build a sailboat. I found a lot of projects articles and drawings in the internet. But I havent found anything like free designs, drawings etc.. Why there aren't anything like that?

 

There are many free designs and plans available, and worth every penny.

Most designs are created for a customer, the customer paid for the design, why should you get it for free?

While you may not be able to find a free design that suits you. You can certainly find free software that allows you create your own design.

Compared to the cost of the finished boat, plans are free. You will waste more material during construction than the cost of the plans.

There are 1000's of plans under $100US. That's nothing when the finished boat will cost $10,000+

Do you want someone to give you the materials and build it for you too?

 

But if hundreds of people will improve some designs they would become many times more faster easier to handel etc....A lot of heads are always better than one design company. I am not talking about price I am talking about boats performance, seaworhines etc.

 

There are also many books concentrating on boat performance and seaworthiness, the information is there for the taking, buy a book or go to the library.

 

I agree %100.
This is something I have thought about for a while now.
For people who build and design for fun not $, this is a great idea.
We just need to come up with a basic design and go from there. Freeship is a perfect place to start.

If anyone would like to help start something like this, please come on board!!!

 

1000's of people over 100's of years have done just that.

All one has to do is look at how shapes have changed over the years.

As each type become more specialized a shape evolves. IMO "many times faster" is not going to happen. Top designers spend 1000's of hours to get a 1% gain. In some cases a 0.05% gain separates a winner from a loser.

The basic hull shapes for displacement hulls are pretty well known. A "many times faster" design is highly unlikely.

I agree that a community design project would be fun. If it produced a boat that is competitive would be great. I would not expect such a design to be a break-through however.

Perhaps a friendly design contest would be fun?

How about a box of 8m length and an equal to windspeed average speed on a 5M windward leeward course and a hull cost limit of $10,000US?

Individuals or teams can submit designs and perhaps one of the pro's here could use the design data to compare the boats with a VPP?

All designs would become public domain at the end of the contest.

I nominate tamkvaitis and Caldera Boats to define the paramters, set a time frame, and enlist the use of a VPP to score the boats.

 

How's about we ask the car designers to do the same thing? Would make for cheaper, more efficient transportation.
Steve "earns his living designing boats - think about it"

 

I am not a professional boat designer - but in fairness to the professional designers - the worst thing would be someone trying to design their own boat who really knew nothing or very little about it from spurious books or used 'free' plans from a dubious or unknown non-responsible source and basically could kill themselves in the process, or even worse, others with them, especially under adverse weather conditions or over a certain speed and so on.
The designers have also had, whether they would like to admit it or not, some necessary modifications to iron out some not so good design features on tried and tested models over time and with various sets of conditions, even if it is just to make handling easier.
Everyone to their own job as not everyone will understand car or boat design especially from the safety angle.
Would you want the general public designing bridges for example that you would drive over with the wife and kids at 500 feet?
Think that is worth the plan price dont you?

 

You guys aren't trying to say that it takes years of study and a large investment in tools to design boats properly are you?

Am I to think that a desire to feed your family should carry greater weight than the joy of sharing your hard won, expensive, knowledge?

I hear you Steve!

Randy- who makes his living as a rigger

 

If 5 or 6 N. A. decided to pick a boat and improve it. They could. If 6 non N. A. do the same thing. 4 of them could be visiting the others in a hospital. Be realistic about what you can improve.

 

I'm one who offers a lot of information about elements in the related industries, but I hold the line when it comes to sharing hard fought and earned concepts and ideas (I've already gotten a rudder design high jacked)

Cyclops (and others) have touched a point, one that bugs the crap out of me. Low cost and free design software. This gives the false impression that anyone can push and tug some wire nets around until it look like a boat and then have at it, developed plates and all. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

Yacht design is engineering folks. It involves several disciplines and isn't a subject most would survive if they got graded for their efforts.

You may be able to develop a set of lines that look like a boat, but I'll bet you have no idea where she'll float, how big a quarter wave she'll drag (or why) what thickness the framing gussets should be or a host or other seemly mundane tasks that a designer has to perform, before the project can be worthy of taking people you love aboard, and traveling farther from shore then THEY can swim back to.

Personally, I'm reminded of a local fellow who many years ago, after 30 years building steel vessels of all types, decided he could design and build a "retirement" yacht. He was wise and chose a conservative flat bottomed hull form, took several years to weld it up and fit her out. At launch it floated unusually high (at least my thoughts of the time), but was convinced with a full load of stores and tanks she'd settle down. He limited his beam to make over the road travel on a flat bed without a bunch of permits. He loaded up the boat, made way out of the river where it promptly rolled over when it was entered the bay. The boat is now a reef and the owner is still paying fines.

You can design a boat. You can find hundreds of free (typically not complete) designs on line. There are many books full of free designs with the purchase of the book. I have hundreds of designs in the books I own. Frankly there isn't a lot of excuses that can be made for not finding them.

If you type > www.boat-links.com/boatlink < into your browser you can scroll down to the free designs section and find thousands. Typing "free boat designs" into the search function on your browser will generate thousands of hits on the subject.

I strongly recommend against self designed efforts, without a firm grasp of the concepts, principles and theories necessary in the various engineering disciplines, needed in yacht design.

 

I for one, thank all the professionals on this forum that take the time to answer questions posed by people like me who are armed with little knowledge.

I don't expect them to design a boat for me, and I'm flattered and amazed when they use their valuable time to explain the answer to questions they have heard a thousand times.

I'm a rigger, I know about what I do. I don't design rigs and masts for other people, I'm not a N.A. On the other hand I've seen rigs that were designed by N.A.s that don't seem to have a clew. Do I change their design? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

To all the pro's: THANK YOU!

 

Most of the BEST and SEAWORTHY boat designs were built by self taught designers, not schooled NA’s

I would not listen to these fear monger NA’s who think everyone else is too stupid to build decent safe boats. Just do it.!

Good old-fashioned trial and error will teach you more that any book of formulas, which by the way are only theories.

NA like most engineering fields is saturated with idiots, who have absolutely NO common sense. Unfortunately I have to work with these guys everyday.

 

There's little difference between a person that takes it upon themselves to design a boat, then a person paid to design a boat. I learned design after years of in the field work, self study, then more schooling. I can be held responsible for life and limb in the event of a misfortune, judged to be negligent in some way. That's right, man slaughter folks, if a death is involved. I've been involved in this type of litigation. You have to have the protection of the license, if only to get insurance.

It's true a large portion of the 20th century's brightest yacht designers were not licensed engineers and the argument is made that they did it just fine, but it's not a valid argument when you access the work and back grounds of the individuals in question. Lets take L. Francis Herreshoff. He was born the son of one of the country's finest engineers and yacht designer. He grew up in one of the most respected and high tech manufacturing facilities in the USA. His training lasted a couple of decades and bore a strong family resemblance, until he developed his own style. He wasn't licensed, but surly was an engineer. His calculations and scantlings bear this out easily once evaluated and examined. I've studied his and many other of the "greats" and all their work shows clever structural analyses and implementation. Anyone who uses the augment that Ted Brewer (including himself, which he did in a WoodenBoat post a few years ago) wasn't an engineer hasn't studied his work.

When you look at the Nevens and Herreshoff scantling rules, it's very clear what type of people wrote them. These weren't licensed engineers, but their work surely could have been done by one. In fact, the licensed engineers relied on these rules and guide lines for many years, knowing what results they could expect, if they were followed.

Do you want an unlicensed doctor to remove your gallbladder? How about an unlicensed aircraft designer's efforts carrying your kids to grand 'ma's house? Maybe you'd like to cross a bridge done by unlicensed welders or have your home repaired by unlicensed roofers? Care to ride an elevator to the top of the Sears tower after the cables were replaced by unlicensed elevator guys? What about an unlicensed lawyer defending you on a capital crime you didn't commit? Why do we expect these folks to meet and prove qualifications, but not in a yacht designer?

Sure every industry has boneheads (I've been called that from time to time, but she bitches when I don't take out the trash too) but it's certainly not "saturated". People that haven't the "common sense" don't survive long in the industry, any industry, it's just too competitive and there's too much talent.

RHough, sometimes things that seem out of place or not up to snuff, may have been done that way for a reason (I was a rigger too, years ago) What may seem to be under size clevis pins and forks may be the intended weak link the rest of the rig is scaled to. Other reasons may be class rules or weight aloft or manufacturing requirements or changes made by a manufacture to save costs, but not recommended by the designer. Then again, mistakes do creep in.

I build as well as design and I couldn't do either without licenses and insurance. It sucks, it really does, but it's the cost of doing business. As a result, my stuff sells for more, has better resale value and is easily insurable.

I for one am glad we make doctors qualify and re-qualify for the jobs they do. Lawyers, plumbers, electricians, welders, super tanker drivers, airline pilots, the idiot driving the car in front of me, the guy that looks after my dogs when they need their shots, and yes the lowly engineer. You know, the folks who insure the buildings don't fall down on you while you sleep or work, the bridges that last twice as long as they were intended before replacement, the cars that keep you more comfortable and safer then ever thought possible, and the boat that kicks your butt in a storm, but still manages to bring your soggy *** back to port.

As a general rule, when people are placed in an unnatural environment (35,000 in the air, farther from shore then you can swim back to, traveling faster then 25 MPH, being in or under something that can smash you like a bug if it failed, etc.) is when you really need an engineer to trust.

I dare anyone to name a "great" designer who wasn't a first class engineer. I also dare anyone to name a boat designed by one of the so called NA idiots that are saturating the industry. There are only about 500 real yacht designers in the whole country, pick the ones you think are idiots and/or without any common sense. Of course you'll have to convince us why, which would require substantial engineering skills on your part.

 

Thank god that N.A.s use Skenes so the safety factors are large enough to cover mistakes, corporate cost cutting, and owner abuse.

Its a joy to work on a rig that was designed by a good N.A. Nothing too big or too small, fair leads for every bit of wire and cordage. Elegant deck fittings and systems that work. We did a mast and deck outfitting for a new but traditional design this year, it was great. The designer got it right, and the builders got it straight. Even the life-lines measured out within an eight port and starboard. Square chainplates a dead centre hole at the partners. My mother could have built the rigging and got the mast tuned. Yes it was an expensive boat but the owner got what he paid for, it will still be a jewel 40 years from now.

The current production boats are pretty much junk, not because the N.A.s are bad but because people don't understand quality and production builders have to build what sells ... in mast roller reefing, all lines lead aft, and wheel steering on any boat over 25ft. Then the bean counters remove every other hull to deck bolt and use undersize hardware to hit a price point. From what I've seen, there are only two ways to get a good boat. Find a designer that thinks like you do and have one of very few custom builders work with you and your designer while it's built. Or find a design you like and build it yourself.

My bet is that any of the N.A.s that lurk here would do it right, or admit that something was beyond their expertise.

I could go on, but you know what I'm talking about.