Why so few...

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Fanie, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Fanie Fanie

    I was browsing the web and you-tube in search of some medium sized catamarans, it seems the overwhelming is small sailing vessels, mostly 16ft to 20ft an then there is a huge jump to 30ft+ live aboard and bigger... heavy stuff.

    Very few 8m - 10m (or larger) daysailing catamarans. I found the V8 from virusboats and some Stiletto's... and one 10m but a racing boat. Of course all the big stuff is simply racing and bragging with too much money, something few can afford.

    Is there no interest in these medium sized boats, too big for the yard or garages too short... ? Towing vehicle problems... ?

    I cannot believe there is so little interest in these sized boats ?
     
  2. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    The short answer, is that once you go from the trailer-able size up, there's not many good reasons not to jump a big size up. For trailer use, setup time is critical. Very few people are going to use a boat that takes 3 hours to assemble. It's hard to make a cat that both folds and sets up quickly.

    Trimarans offer better comfort and good enough performance in the inbetween size and setup in 20 minutes.
     
  3. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    Building a cat that folds or assembles in 20-30 minutes is very do-able, two persons.

    I'm not sure about the better comfort on tri's, and I dislike the flopping over to the other ama if you shift weight. A cat doesn't do that. Cats offer more deck space (so to speak) and offers privacy in the hulls, something you don't have much of in a tri's hull where everyone shares the same space. Me and the wife and a friend and his wife is going to have an uncomfortable overnight in a tri, unless it's very big.

    If you jump the big size up, it's not trailable any more, it sits in one spot usually the nearest water, the idea would be to tow it to different waters.

    It also seems the only thing most cater for is either racing or cruising (in big cats). The smaller boats doesn't cater for the family and none for fishing - weird, considering fishing is the most popular sport in the world.

    Going out with a powerboat, fuel cost an arm and a leg, especially if you want to trawl. Under sail it doesn't cost anything and you're not limited by range either - well, that is if there is some wind, we usually have. Even when no wind, displacement hulls are ideal since you can still get away very economical with very small motor(s).
     
  4. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Smaller demountable cruising cats are not popular enough to produce it seems. The hulls tend to be pretty confined internally versus a flared trimaran hull perhaps that's the rub for most people although I don't mind a bit of coffin yachting myself.

    The Seawind 24 used to sit in that demountable market but was eventually taken out of production. They do however sell the larger Seawind 950 which is a bridgedeck type cat able to be broken down into two containers for shipping. In Australia we had a few attempts at production trailerable cats the Windrush 600 and the 20' Red Baron I'm not sure of their commercial success but they were never updated or kept in production.

    Ross Turner's Jarcats are quite popular on the home build front.

    edit: maybe you can still order a Windrush 600 or 700? http://www.windrushyachts.com.au/sailing-boats
     
  5. Jetboy
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    It's certainly possible to have a folding 25 foot cat. The ones I've seen just aren't very good. I'm not saying that to be rude or contrarian, but I've never seen a folding trailer cat that I liked. The Macgregor 36 is probably the best example I can think of. I know there are a few others. It's not hard to imagine, but it is hard to execute.
     
  6. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    As mentioned, smaller cats mean you are living in 2 sewer pipes whereas the flared tri hull is wider and more "mono" like, what most people are used to.
    Yes systems can fold a cat up but you are still limited to trailerable width which means you are back to sewer pipes ! Further the money spent on folding is better spent on more waterline length hence "real" cats start at about 10m. And if you can afford that you can usually afford a pen. Trimarans, Farriers, Dragonflys and Scarabs own the 6-10 metre size.
    The Kiwi's have turned the 8.5m class into an art form yet very few folders in cat or tri, the complexity dollar is better spent on other needs. Perhaps you should look there, some fantastic boats, It's a crying shame the rest of the world hasn't got on board with the 8.5 box rule, something about not enough sail area for regions with lighter winds ? And probably the area needed for storing/mooring them is an issue no doubt.
    RR
     
  7. nzclipper
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    nzclipper Junior Member

  8. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    I'm not looking for a boat to buy... in another country LOL.

    I'm trying to figger out why so few people buy bigger trailable boats.

    I can see that the difficult and complicated ? and timely assembly can be a problem.

    Looking at some boats it also seems they are made by those that do not use them, it's not about how they work, it's about how much money they can make. At boat shows it's the same old "tried and tested" over and over, only in different colors and with a new ridiculous price tag. You don't even get the chick with the boat to crew for you :D

    Boat building seems to cater for only the few high class income group, what about the rest ? Most of the less wealthy are willing to do a bit of work themselves, and not many actually can design a decent hull, so if you don't become good in designing first you cannot afford a boat.

    One of the handicaps most power boat users seems to have is the garage space, they buy a boat to fit the garage and not one that fits the water. And every year a few die when they capsize, but wtf, they paid so all is well. Right ?
     
  9. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    In short, large trail able boats are a pain in the arse, and an expensive one, they don't get used and take up space on expensive real estate. The money for the big vehicle and the big trailer is better spent on a wet boat.
    Affordable boats, built by ordinary people have been priced out of existence by societies addiction to insurance. (amongst other things)
     
  10. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    The addiction to insurance is caused by the proliferation of attorneys.
     
  11. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    If launching takes 3 hours and taking it out takes another 3 hours +, that's half a day of work only. No wonder they won't go out.

    Of course there are a lot that can be done to make launching as quick as any other trailable boat. The idea is to prepare at home then go for an outing, fun, not go assemble or work on the boat.

    So the first problem seems to be the deploy and folding. This can be overcome.

    I saw a video where a bloke was turning in nuts on this beams, that's going to take a while. A simple toggle clamp can secure a beam very quickly.

    The mast and the sail setup you okes use is a disaster, all those stay's and 50 lines and.... stuff. You need a simple and easy to use sail setup even a novice (like me) can sail. Also, when you fish, if you hook on something big then you must be able to get the sails out of the way and if required switch to motors - quickly.

    If I look at the sails some boats have then it seems the most expensive on the boat are all those attachments, we'll give you the boat for free but use our lines and our attachments...

    Nothing forces you to have insurance, of course if the price was an arm and a leg in the first place then you won't sleep at night, if the price is not wild then of course the risk becomes so much less.

    The bad about the way these things are abused is it becomes an exclusive thing to have a boat, the arses (right word ? ;)) is slowly but surely scr ewing themselves out of their own occupation.
     
  12. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    I don't think the boat builders are to blame. They just build what buyers want. If buyers don't want what they are selling, they don't last long.

    Sailboat parts can be expensive. No doubt about that. But if you want to sail even remotely efficiently, you'll need things like properly cut sails, masts, rigging, etc. You just can't get around having those.

    I have no intention of ever insuring the boat I'm building.
     
  13. Cat2Fold
    Joined: May 2012
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    Cat2Fold Junior Member

    Well, I have a large folding catamaran. It was originally set up to open in 2-3 hours by the original owner who would take it out for weekend sails.
    I live up in the mountains at least 1000 miles from any ocean. I also am a man of very modest income. My first summer of owning Cat2Fold, I towed her home to the mountains of Wyoming and Idaho and opened her up on high alpine lakes for week long trips twice. After that I towed her back to SoCal and sailed down to Mexico. I was on the water for 5 months that year. I got my trailer down to San Carlos, Mexico and have been leaving her there the past two summers sitting on her trailer at an RV storage yard for $50 per month. Since then I only open her up once a year, and use her for 5-6 months at a time, then it's back to the storage yard while I get my *** back to work.
    So, it's a different usage plan that I have that makes it work for me.
    Otherwise, what everyone else is saying makes sense as to why there are so few out there.
     

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  14. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Fanie Fanie

    Rafi and Heidi is it ? We exchanged a few e-mails before but you wouldn't give me your boat :D I guess I got tired of asking and you got tired of saying no ;)

    It is nice to hear you're still at it.

    Jetboy, I don't know about there but over here if a new cat (motorised) is announced, it's like "yet another" cat. It's the same old thing and imo that is what most buy because there bloody isn't anything else - affordable kind of.
     

  15. Cat2Fold
    Joined: May 2012
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    Cat2Fold Junior Member

    No. Rafi and Heidi were the original owner/creators. I am the lucky guy that somehow ended up with this amazing craft!
     
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