why no solder???

Discussion in 'Electrical Systems' started by terabika, Aug 27, 2005.

  1. yokebutt
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    yokebutt Boatbuilder

    Gonzo,

    I think he's referring to the crimping dies for larger terminals, you know, the ones that gives gas-tight joints and imprints its number on the terminal so you can verify that it was crimped with the proper size die, and no, they don't have "Nicopress" written on them.

    Oh yeah, use the double-crimp terminals for the smaller ones with the RIGHT type of crimpers, (be a cheap-*** tight-wad somewhere else) and always give every terminal a good tug between your hands after crimping, if it comes apart, you're doing something seriously wrong.

    Yoke.
     
  2. terabika
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    terabika Junior Member

    Can you be a little more specific about what you saw and tell me how a soldered joint/ inexpensive wire will lead to death?
     
  3. Vince Hosea
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    Vince Hosea Junior Member

    I briefly read through the messages, so I am not sure if anyone mentioned it, but the problem with soldered connections is that the solder can melt under a high current condition, leaving the circuit open. I have seen this happen in several older, neglected boats where the current calculations/requirements for the circuit were ignored or the install was of poor workmanship.
     
  4. safewalrus
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    You mean you guys crimp ALL your wires? bet you use bulldog grips in your rigging too!
     
  5. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    Ok for splicing wire use heatshinks for connecting to apperatis us plugs with corrosion preventitve,,,,when I say spicing I mean to strip off 3 inches of wire and then tie a squar knot ,put the heatshrink on before you tie the knot and wella!!!!
     
  6. Andina
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    Andina Junior Member

    Keep in mind that

    Many compression connections on connectors that have been designed for marine stranded wire rely on the wire compressing to fill the cavity under pressure. If the end is tinned with solder the wire does not compress and you only have contact at the high points that can overheat at high current. This is particularly true of shore power cables.

    Regards,

    Andina Marie Foster,
    tech@yandina.com
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Andina, tinned marine wire has each individual strand tinned, before wrapped into a bundle, which then is sheathed with the outer insulating jacket(s). This permits crimps to be used (heat shrink highly recommended, particularly the stuff with an adhesive liner), prevents corrosion and is the recommended method.

    This thread took an unfortunate turn, with the original poster finding pleasure poking insults and ridicule at not only the recommended safety minimums, established within the industry, but at forum members as well (this was common in his other posts as well). It's been some time since this poster has made comment on this or any other thread and I'm quite glad he's gone, hopefully not in a puff of smoke from his home made brew of contraptions aboard his home.
     
  8. Andina
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    Andina Junior Member

    Thanks PAR

    However the point is good information to all. I'm aware of the construction of tinned wire but the poster was contemplating tinning the end of the bare wire for the connection himself. This is entirely different to a bundle of tinned as they are now consolidated into a solid lump and when tightened in a screw clamp will not deform like a bundle of tinned wire so conatact is only made in a few places which can lead to overheating.

    This would also apply to crimping - the crip will not have sufficient pressure to deform the consolidated conductors and may not provide a good connection.
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I agree completely, Andina. Most of us keep up with the trends and upgrades. I don't know of a single major production or custom manufacture that still solders their connections. It's faster and longer lived to used crimps on tined marine grade.

    Some low buck backyard builders may use bull dogs on their rig, but no rigger or manufacture of any sort that I've seen. In their defense, I've never seen one slip if the saddle is on the correct side. You know how it is Safewalrus, we primitives in the new world must get along with what we got.
     
  10. george allard
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    george allard Junior Member

    I read of a marine survey, for an insurance company, that some wiring connections had to be soldered to pass the inspection. It was on www.houseboatingworld.com. What's up?
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Can you narrow it down? It has a lot of threads. I couldn't find it.
     
  12. Tim B
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    Tim B Senior Member

    A most interesting thread,

    I might point out that this is like most things, fine if it's done right. I have seen some bad solder joints and some solder joints that I would definitely trust. I've also known crimped connections to fail on a more regular basis, and yet the ones on the car can't be faulted.

    Like most things, it's a question of taking time and care over it. Remembering to use heat-shink tubing over joints, using grommets to pass cables out of boxes and NEVER letting a cable take any load.

    Time, Care, Attention, in my view the three things that a lot of modern boats (especially offshore racing boats) suffer from, often during the build process.

    Tim B.
     
  13. george allard
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    george allard Junior Member

    Check under forum, 1972 River Queen, survey.
     
  14. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Crimps got a bad name for failing because of using cheap crimpers. The crimp should not come apart if you pull from it.
     

  15. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    Beware comparing anything done on a houseboat to what is done in the rest of the boating industry. I have had a lot of experience with the houseboat industry and it took about ten years just to get them all to comply with Federal Regs. Most of thenm are finally up to speed with ABYC but there are still some out there who are building RV's that happen to float. So don't be surprised if you find some that have soldered connections. They are still learning.
     
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