Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by sharpii2, May 7, 2020.

?

Do you believe Sven's latest Ex Lex will make it to New Zeeland.

  1. Nope.

    53.8%
  2. Probably.

    30.8%
  3. Almost certainly.

    15.4%
  1. CarlosK2
    Joined: Jun 2023
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Screenshot_2024-06-09-14-44-13-27.jpg

    Wow

    I have asked the machine for LOLA at Boatdesign dot net

    And we have made a nice collective work

    Thanks Sharpii2
     
  2. CarlosK2
    Joined: Jun 2023
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    Location: Vigo, Spain

    CarlosK2 Senior Member

  3. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    Location: sweden

    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Sven thought the boat will displace 900kg loaded. Im waiting to see what he does with regards to interior framing, or using the plywood as part of a glass sandwhich.

    If his exterior hatches are of such superior design, why does he need crawl through portals? A heavy zipped canvas screen on the for and aft bulkheads will keep out spray, keeping the lower level of the bulkheads above the wl is a good idea in case of hull breach, otherwise he is just making things difficult for himself......but that has been his life.
     
  4. Robert Biegler
    Joined: Jun 2017
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    Location: Trondheim

    Robert Biegler Senior Member

    I thought it's for when he is working from a hatch in seas heavy enough that one might break over him. That might bring along more than spray. He could build the hatches so that he can snap on a spraydeck, and because he puts the gasket at the lower edge of the rim, he could have enough clearance to keep the spraydeck permanently mounted. A possible drawback of a spraydeck is that it might slow down ducking below when a breaker hits. Michael Richey broke his spine standing in Jester's hatch when a sea hit, so being able to duck quickly might be more important than keeping water out of the wet compartments.

    How different is the new boat to the old? I thought Sven said the old boat was too big (despite planning for the next boat to be longer for some time), but the dimensions seem to be much the same. I see only these changes:
    1) He has abandoned the biplane rig in the front, without explanation. Now he has four masts in line.
    2) The rudder is hung on a skeg. I would expect that, in the final ExLex, the friction of the large diameter shaft on a plain bearing would make for a very sticky rudder, but Sven doesn't seem to hand steer enough to care about the feel, and he uses sail trim and the bow centreboard for self-steering, so he doesn't need low friction for that. I don't remember him explaining that choice.
    3) He has returned to the twin keels, which he cut off the previous boat on the grounds they might trip up the boat when running downwind in heavy seas. If he has explained how the trade-offs differ for this boat, I missed it.
    4) The new boat has a hard chine.
     
  5. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Sven changes his mind and does not feel the need to explain himself ESPECIALLY when it contradicts a previous position.
    Anyone who describes himself as a "boat designer", would not add an extra 10cm strip of 450gm cloth, and suggest it is equal to a frame. If the boat should fail in this section, he will no doubt go back to saying plywood is an inferior material.

    As for bilge keels with wheels, he did say he would test sail the boat around Vastervik. What point of building a "mock-up" and sailing it back to Madeira, and then returning to build the exact same boat in expensive divinycell?

    He could have gone to New Zealand for ice cream in the Havsfidra, if he really wanted to. I wont be surprised if he cuts this boat up or scraps or changes the keel/s 3 times or never goes sailing again or spends the rest of his life in his workshop........or sails to New Zealand in a sub-par plywood boat.
    I expect Yann might have completed his second circumnavigation in his plywood Baluchon, while Sven is still changing his mind about stuff. Best of luck to him.
     
  6. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Now that he has gotten pretty far into this build, I can see he is doing it in a more planned, orderly fashion than he did the previous one (at least by Sven standards).
    He has clearly abandoned the bow centerboard idea probably because, in order to be of sufficient size, it has to take up too much fore and aft space. He has gone back to the twin keel configuration and it appears he has done so to stay. He has maintained his commitment to a hatch free center section (his sleeping room and his dining room). And this has resulted as a four sail schooner rig. He probably abandoned the biplane arrangement because, as it has been pointed out, one of the two sails is all but useless except when sailing downwind.

    The reason for the four sails instead of three is likely to be to have smaller ones that are accessible from the fore or aft hatches. Although this really seems to be a peculiar rig for such a small boat, I do see some real advantages. The main one is that it provides a relatively large number of possible sail combinations. Assuming he doesn't reef a single sail, I have come up with at least 14. To keep things simple, I'll just number the sails from fore to aft:
    a.) s1 e.) s1 + s2 i.) s2 + s4 m.) s2 + s3 +s4
    b.) s2 f.) s1 + s3 j.) s3 + s4 n.) s1 + s2 + s3 + s4
    c.) s3 g.) s1 + s4 k.) s1 + s2 + s3
    d.) s4 h.) s2 + s3 l.) s1 + s3 + s4
    Now, maybe not every one of these combinations is practical. But I think most of them are. They can be especially useful with the absence of either an autopilot or a self-steering vane. If each of these sails is set up with a halyard and a good set of lazy jacks, quickly furling them, or resetting them should be a relatively easy matter, which, with the proper halyard leads, can be done without ever coming on deck (a good capability to have, if one is older and less agile than one used to be).
    Another advantage is this set up keeps the sail plan low and the masts short.

    The biggest disadvantage, of course, is less windward ability.

    But this handicap may not be as bad as it may seem. The reason I say this is because I believe one needs less sail area when going upwind than when going downwind. This is because of apparent wind. He could for instance set up sails s1 +s4, leaving a huge gap between them. Or he could set s2 + s4, leaving still a rather large gap between them. In really windy conditions, he can set up just s2 or s3.

    With all four sails set, I come up with an estimated S/D of about 9.7. Even with just two sails set, I come up with about 4.8 for the S/D, which is a considerable improvement over his previously boat (which had an S/D of about 4.0).
     
  7. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    Location: sweden

    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Old Swedish open working boats were quite common with 3 or 4 mast sprit rigs. Nothing he does is new.
    It would appear that making 40 watertight compartments for safe use in the Southern Ocean being pitch-poled and capsized, means he is going in this boat, despite saying it was a mock-up........

    He may wake up tomorrow with another idea about another boat.
     
    C. Dog likes this.
  8. Yes
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Sweden

    Yes Junior Member

    What someone like Mr. Yrvind should do (younger version of course) in order to contribute to the sailing boat design community, is to go on a voyage in many different boats that are available today and can be bought for less than 10 thousand usd each. Review those boats and suggest changes for improvements, instead of starting to build new and new boats built on a design that is so stupid and ill thought out that giving up on the build is the only logical conclusion after having spent time, money and material, which obviously is not environmentally friendly att all and extremely frustrating for everyone who is following the galore of dead end trips.

    Go small, go simple, go now. Boats under 10 thousand usd:

     
    bajansailor, skaraborgcraft and CT249 like this.
  9. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Judging by the comments that are being left under his videos, the vast majority have no idea about boats or offshore sailing.
    It was only a few months ago, he stated "plywood boats are stupid"........
    And as a self proclaimed "yacht designer", he still has an inability to follow through on his own design process, before changing his mind about something, often to the detriment to the entire boat, as seen on the last project. He then reverts to "its just an experiment".
    It may be the result of having a free heated workshop, epoxy, discounts on materials and donations.
    Anyone who thinks they are going to live to 120 does not need to get it right first time.
     
    bajansailor likes this.
  10. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Certainly no surprise to me. Another half built project being cast aside. He will most likely ruin the "new" boat by "improving" it. Remember, only an imbecile never changes there mind.........
     
    bajansailor likes this.
  11. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    comfisherman Senior Member

    Bumped into his YouTube somehow over the last few weeks, while searching for foam in a mold when not infusing. Watched a few videos, figure I've met a version of him about a dozen times over my adult life. Somewhere along the line the adventurous spirit that requires a build before an adventure turns into building instead of adventure. Much easier to putter in a shed than roll around the sea.

    Probably happen to all of us if we live long enough, certainly seen the phenomenon before...
     
    bajansailor likes this.
  12. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Im almost at that stage, but im honest about enjoying the build process. I still enjoy sailing, but im happy to potter rather than cross oceans; did all that stuff when I was younger and have no regrets. Why would almost anyone give up a free workshop, cosy apartment, sponsered materials and donations? He wont go anywhere for a long period, it would mean losing his apartment/library. Only a Swede would complain about being "hard done by" the State.
     
  13. CarlosK2
    Joined: Jun 2023
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    Location: Vigo, Spain

    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    He has been tracing circles for 24 years, his case shows that a sailboat is a cruel puzzle, few pieces, but all merciless

    He dreams of "The Old Six Beam"

    But that dream (LWL = 6 x BWL) is Beowulf

    https://www.superyachttimes.com/yachts/beowulf

    Small sailboats need beam to have power. Their idea of a low-powered sailboat is the Sundeer 57/60

    https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/sundeer-60/

    He wants and does not want Centerboard, in fact he performs a kind of religious ritual: he puts on, takes off, puts on, takes off ...

    Obviously the keel and the centerboard are or can be a colossal mess.

    One possible solution is two keels, another possible solution is the Pogo solution with a hydraulic arm, and another solution in a small boat is that a ballasted centerboard enters the cockpit by raising it thanks to the combination of lever arm + hoist + winch

    The small Baluchon in its second version has two keels, a good solution

    A sailboat is a handful of cruel contradictions that are difficult to reconcile. I have pointed out two here:

    Sail carryng power that leads to big beam, a big beam that endanger passive safety, and the keel, ballast and centerboard and the desire for a shallow draft and for the sailboat to be able to be left on top of the sand.
     
  14. CarlosK2
    Joined: Jun 2023
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    Location: Vigo, Spain

    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    You can make a very large, low-powered sailboat with a lot of length (example Sundeer 57/60), or you can make a small, high-powered sailboat

    A sailboat is a puzzle made up of a few pieces, and all those pieces are merciless

    And you can't have power without paying the price in Freeboard

    Now that no one is listening: the French Mini Transat-style hull is complete madness because

    (A) it breaks a sacred rule: "Beam / (freeboard + hull draft) =< 2"

    and

    (B) because the cockpit turns into a catamaran when turned upside down

    Screenshot_2024-01-24-15-22-40-41.jpg

    (but the solution is not Yrvind's sarcophagus)
     

  15. CarlosK2
    Joined: Jun 2023
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    Location: Vigo, Spain

    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Screenshot_2024-09-21-12-20-37-89.jpg

    We don't need an Egyptian sarcophagus

    what we need is to recover our sanity

    1) a cockpit where the sailor has a comfortable backrest, which, in addition to comfort (and let's not forget that fatigue is the mortal enemy of the sailor on small sailboats) protects him and makes it more difficult to fall into the water, and on top of that when capsizes doesn't become a catamaran

    2) moderate proportion of the hull: Beam / Freeboard

    3) vertical position of the center of gravity at LWL

    and

    4) in a small size we can precisely enjoy the big luxury of raising an enormous keel thanks to the combination of a lever arm + hoist + winch
     
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