Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by sharpii2, May 7, 2020.

?

Do you believe Sven's latest Ex Lex will make it to New Zeeland.

  1. Nope.

    58.3%
  2. Probably.

    25.0%
  3. Almost certainly.

    16.7%
  1. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Random thought.
    I'd like to see Sven's SOR for his boats.
    Somehow I don't really think he had one. ????
     
  2. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    He starts out with a kinda SOR, but while building he gets new ideas and dreams and sets new goals, and adapts the SOR all the time to that, but doesn't adapt the actual build sufficient to every new SOR, hence he often ends up with too less space and too less loading capacity.

    ( SOR - Statement Of Requirements )
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  3. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I don't know if he knows what a Sum Of Requirements is. I didn't know until an instructor told me I didn't have one.

    I think he comes up with what he thinks is a cool idea, then hastily designs a boat around it.

    But over the years, I have noticed a trend in his thinking. He is after absolute minimalism without the sacrifice of seaworthiness. Like in racing, comfort seems to be an after thought. And I think he strays too far from it.

    He has done a lot of high longitude sailing, and I don't think he has ever had to be rescued. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    He may not be a designer in the traditional sense, but I see him as a real innovator.

    I have learned a lot from him.

    Two things I have learned are:

    1.) the minimum beam of such a boat should be around 5 ft. Much less than that, and it's very difficult to get sufficient head room without sacrificing initial stability.

    2.) The sail area/displacement ratio should be at least in the high single digits.

    I have learned other things as well. One, is that stores can double as ballast, so the ballast ratio can be lower. Two, that the best berth in the boat may be the cabin sole. He has been know to strap himself down there when conditions are really rough.

    The type of micro-voyaging boat he loves to design is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. But I think it is a type worth exploring.

    As for his often cutting criticisms of the more conventional yachting community, I think it helps to read his autobiography. I do not agree with them, but I think I know where they are coming from.
     
  4. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    So what is the Sum Of Requirements, and what's the maximum ?
     
  5. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
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    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    You saying I said that or am I missreading you?
     
  6. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
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    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    I disagree, since I think that for something to be an innovation, it has to meet two requirements:
    • It has to be new
    • It has to be useful
    As whole entities, his latest creations have not been very useful.
     
  7. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I agree with JPE.

    Too many people who claim to innovate just ignore lessons learned, don't look at history, and coat whatever with a coat of paint.
    Not very useful.

    There are people who independently develop something already known.
    We should not slam them. Just educate them.
    It's happened to me - to my embarrassment.
     
  8. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    KeithO Senior Member

    Ok, since apparently I am misinterpreting what you said, please explain what that quote means. It sounds awfully similar to a quote by a former US President when he said "You didn't build that"
     
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  9. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    KeithO Senior Member

    In 2007, the Supreme court ruled on the first case on obviousness in a case involving KSR t
    Int and Teleflex. Prior to 2007 there were a lot of frivolous patents issued which had little or no merit. After 2007 that changed drastically. The patent office hired a lot of additional examiners and tightened up the criteria that had to be met before issuing a patent.

    I have 14 US patents issued 2007 and later. Most of the manufacturing related stuff are trade secrets since it's pretty difficult to prosecute once the information gets out. There were no patents filed for during the time I worked in resistance welding but the product in the field changed to the point of being unrecognizable in a 3 year timeframe. Most of the large European resistance welding companies went bust in the global price war that broke out in the late 90's. It's the same situation with catalytic converter design, most people wouldn't believe the technology that is used to manufacture them today, whether for gasoliine vehicles or 12" diameter substrates for the big caterpillar applications.

    So I don't agree with your assessment. A lot of things have changed in the world in the last 12 years. If the government military or FAA are involved then things slow down drastically and are not lead by merit. Batteries, solar PV, DC motors and drives have never performed better or been cheaper than now.
     
  10. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Congratulations on your patents. I do have questions about lots of patents, probably based on poor judgements by patent examiners.

    But I don't understand what your post has to do with the issue of 1. it has to be new, and 2. it has to be useful.
    If patents have been issued for real advances then the system in that limited area is working.

    What does that have to do with Sven? And the perception that much of his innovation is not new or useful.
     
  11. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    KeithO Senior Member

    I feel that this thread is generally bashing inventors because of the actions of a few bad actors
     
  12. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I sincerely hope not.
    I just agree with JPE that a lot of people think that they can be innovating just because they want to present that image.

    Like everyone else, they should be judged on what they actually do, not say.

    I come here because there are unexpected gems of innovation at all levels of boating, and I want to hear about them. No matter who does it.
    If I could recognize Sven's innovation, I'd be glad to acknowledge it.
     
  13. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    KeithO Senior Member

    The merit of someone's work is always going to be decided by the market. Things inventors or company press representatives say is called marketing. Real inventors, unless they are working alone virtually never have contact with the public or customers. In my position I have never even attended a trade show. The company hires people who do not have first hand knowledge of the technology to attend trade shows and other public facing events.
     
  14. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Thanks for the trivial definitions.
    Pretty stupid for a company to send someone to a trade show who don't have first hand knowledge.
    Those who might have recognized the benefit of a new idea are sitting in the office playing with themsleves.

    In my case, they sent managers who knew nothing and brought back less. Oh, I forgot, they brought back expense receipts.

    We need to get back to Sven, and whatever value there is in that.

    What do you think are his innovations?
     

  15. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    Location: Michigan

    KeithO Senior Member

    Sven seems to make things that look ugly and ungainly. Usually there is no reason to make something ugly. When it then works poorly at its intended job it is no surprise.

    You seem to underestimate the premeditation of company executives when deciding to send people to trade shows. First of all, all real customers get to tour the production and engineering facilities and are shown anything they want to see. At tradeshows the hallways are filled with reps from competitors sometimes their lawyers, and the press. By using marketing people at the show, there is no risk of the actual inventor disclosing something he shouldn't have or competitors drilling too deep into the details. Just like the king's used to lock up their smart people to maintain competitive advantage...
     
    A II likes this.
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