Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by sharpii2, May 7, 2020.

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Do you believe Sven's latest Ex Lex will make it to New Zeeland.

  1. Nope.

    60.0%
  2. Probably.

    20.0%
  3. Almost certainly.

    20.0%
  1. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 74
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    Also, it is not very sustainable, which, alas, is a concept Sven keeps rubbing at our faces ;)
     
  2. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 25
    Likes: 13, Points: 3
    Location: sweden

    skaraborgcraft Junior Member

    All change again! Sven obviously is going to justify his use as a "mock up", which could have been built in cheap hardboard, instead of using multiple sheets of 15mm plywood and many litres of epoxy. His seeming obsession of saving every centimeter in size led to his previous boat being too slim by 4cm and his current boat unable to carry a load without excess drag. Why o why, if his obsession with math and calculations does he go from what he states as being "ideal" , always seems to get morphed into something "less than"?. It would appear to some that he continously sets himself up to fail, or at least have an excuse to build another boat. Nothing wrong with building multiple boats and trying ideas, as he has spent his life doing this. Still, at his age, the fact he has the energy and drive to complete projects is worthy of celebration, but i expect many of his financial supporters would rather he just took a 2 month charter in Greece every winter.
     
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  3. skyl4rk
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Lake Michigan

    skyl4rk Junior Member

    He could just deck over a traditional faering hull and it would probably work better.
     
  4. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 25
    Likes: 13, Points: 3
    Location: sweden

    skaraborgcraft Junior Member

    Or, he could just glass the hull he has, and if the interior room is so vast for him, just line the main cabin with foam insulation and be done with it. If he goes back to Porto Santo to return in Ex-Lex as planned, he already has a suitable rig. As others have mentioned, he likes to talk about being "green" and low material usage, but his own actions are the complete opposite. He would have been better off keeping his production 20ft and just gone cruising..........but its Sven we are talking about, so forget rational. I do not mind him wasting his own time at his age, but the amount of materials that has been cut up and dumped the last few projects, even if small boats, is non renewable petro chemical based, nothing eco friendly or green about that.
     
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  5. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 74
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    First and foremost, Sven is a diy builder. Second, he is a sailor. Only after those two, is he a boat designer.
     
  6. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 450
    Likes: 187, Points: 43
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    He is an innovator. He's looking for that idea that will spur the World to be better. Whether his own projects achieve his ideals or not are not so much the goal as coming up with a better solution for everyone. His wasted efforts and materials are not so considerable if they help find a greener solution for everybody.

    That said, I can't say I think he's on the right track. His rig size is simply too small, for no good reasons, and not the most efficient sail plans when there are very efficient designs that have been proving themselves for decades.

    Sven's biggest virtue is his passion and sustained mission focus. I admire that.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
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  7. skaraborgcraft
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 25
    Likes: 13, Points: 3
    Location: sweden

    skaraborgcraft Junior Member

    The sail plan works with the shallow hulls he has been building. Scilly pilot gigs can do 14+ knots off wind under lug rig, and can do 9 knots upwind under oar power. I see no point sticking a high aspect ratio rig on a boat unless it is matched below the water with an equivalent foil. Certainly his sail area to weight could be raised somewhat, but the narrow hull with limited ballast does not have much power to carry so much. I understand his need to innovate, but if he built another Bris that would be more "mainstream" if he is indeed hoping to pocket from his design work.

    I think any young people looking to escape could go and buy a used Etap 22, good sailing performance and unsinkable, for less cost than building one of Svens boats.......and it would have resale value.

    That being said, I cant help but see what he comes up with next.
     
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  8. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 74
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    Innovation and innovator are amongst the most misused word nowadays. I recently heard a very good definition for innovation: something that is new and useful. Neither of which Sven actually has provided. He simply recycles old ideas, hones them (I deliberately did not use the word improves), and repeats. Basically nothing wrong with that, I mean, it is HIS hobby, by all means he should spend his free time as he pleases.

    But an innovator he is not. Not by my standards at least.
     
  9. skyl4rk
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 51
    Likes: 9, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 21
    Location: Lake Michigan

    skyl4rk Junior Member

    He has built and successfully sailed his designs across ocean passages. The ocean is the final judge of a design, and Sven has succeded as a designer with a number of his designs.
     
  10. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 2,014
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I just got done reading his latest post.

    Ex Lex (3?) now looks like a bateau from the French-Canadian lumber trade. It has the proportions and the general shape.

    It looks like he plans to use two 3.6 sm balanced lugs, wing on wing, for sailing down wind, with a 1.7 sm mizzen.

    It is not clear what he plans to do with the 2nd 3.6 sm sail when reaching or sailing upwind. Perhaps he plans on moving the sail and mast to an aft location, which may prove to be an interesting chore in any kind of a sea way.

    He has returned to the bow center board, an idea I find interesting. This way, he is assured of never again having to deal with a lee helm. And because so much of the nearly vertical sides will be immersed and act like a long, shallow keel, once the boat heels, he may not end up with as much weather helm as one might expect either. All in all, it's an interesting experiment.

    I couldn't help but notice the vestigial long, shallow keels, which he calls 'vertical chine runners'. I don't know if I really like the idea, because it seems to me that they will add more drag than effective lateral area, and or righting moment, than just a bottom slab or even inside ballast.

    I agree with some of his critics that his operation isn't really all that 'green', in that he makes what are in effect throw away boats, which are built to last 40 years. But the expensive construction materials may be somewhat justified in that he can forgo a heating system, and that all that expensive foam makes the boats most likely unsinkable.
     
  11. JPE
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 74
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: Finland

    JPE Junior Member

    I too am in great doubt regarding the near vertical ballasted chine runners. Not efficient at all, in any sense. But hey, it's Sven, it don't have to make sense :)
     
  12. skyl4rk
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 51
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    Location: Lake Michigan

    skyl4rk Junior Member

    I guess it is a sharpie hull?

    The biplane lug rig will work well when sailing downwind, it will self steer.
     
  13. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    No, it's a dory or bateau hull.

    Sharpies are different in that the stem is usually at or above the surface. They are also wider than they are deep and have less flair to their sides.

    Sharpies generally have much greater initial stability than dories. Dories typically have to struggle to get sufficient initial stability to carry sufficient sail area. But they usually have a greater range of stability after enough ballast is added to allow enough sail area. This is why sailing dories usually have ballast keels and always carry ballast of some kind, while sharpies often don't.

    But the line between the two will always be fuzzy. A sharpie, for example, can have vertical sides which can extend quite high up. They can also have a deep rocker to their bottoms. This changes the width to depth ratio of the main hull section to one approaching that of a dory. And then like a dory they definitely need ballast. But this causes a trade-off of a higher range of stability in exchange for lower initial stability. But it's still a sharpie, because it has a wider bottom in relation to its beam. Or is it?

    Sven's latest creation looks more like a dory to me. It may have trouble standing up to the bigger sail plan he has in mind, even though it is still quite modest. It may heel more than he expects. It has the fore and aft bottom profile of a dory, which is almost always flatter than that of a sharpie.
     
  14. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 450
    Likes: 187, Points: 43
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    It is my understanding that dories were designed to stack nested on the deck of their mothership. This lead to wide flair leading to their poor initial stability. But, as they heeled, more righting moment entered the water quickly, which made them tippy, but hard to turn over. Sharpies were designed for shallow bay waters where they had no need to fit on the deck of another ship. The flat bottom, simple box construction is a very stable design that is light and easy to build.

    Sven's boat, with its spoon/scow ends has elements of a sharpie, but I wouldn't call it a sharpie, nor a dory.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     

  15. skyl4rk
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 51
    Likes: 9, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 21
    Location: Lake Michigan

    skyl4rk Junior Member

    Skiff, dory, sharpie, the terminology is less important than the fact that Sven is building a flat bottom boat for offshore use, which is somewhat unusual.
     
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