Why don't lots more people sail multis..???

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by buzzman, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    buzzman Senior Member

    Another good idea would be to 'stack' the boats, so between each pair on the ground another would be raised above them, all with masts up.

    Two posts in line (on the same line as the hulls centreline) with a crossbar joining them.

    Then at right angles to these, at each end of the crossbar, two more bars extending equidistant either side of the longitudinal bar.

    The ends of these attached to each other by planks to which the wheels of the beach trolley of the upper boat could be strapped down.

    A pair of lightweight (but strong) ramps and a couple of guys to push the cats up the ramps.

    Double the space available and still let everyone remain mast up and ready to sail.

    Upper deck for late-comers, long-term members closer to the clubhouse or ramp....

    Good DIY project and not too expensive. Could also be done progressively, thus spreading the costs over time.
     
  2. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    what I think is needed is something like what Hobie Cat did for catamarans, but less costly and more compact.

    I have thought about a simple 16' tri, use bungee cords to hold the amas in place, a simple cantalever mast, minimal rigging, rudder and dagger board. could have it ready to sail in 15 min or less, fit on a car top or small trailer, can store it hanging from a garage roof or in a carport. Something not much larger or costly than a sailboard.

    It would make it even better if it could be design for both a production version, and a build it yourself version, that would be similar enogh that they can race together in one class. It would introduce a lot of people to mutil hull sailing.

    The other perception, as pointed out before, is that sailing is an expensive "sport" that only wealthy people engage in. Odd how few would consider a sail or kite board as a costly sport, but owning a sailboat, even a small one, can be. how do you make a sticker or sign for your car that says "follow me, I am going sailing" that does not sound elitist? Perhaps it might appeal to the "green" crowd like sea kayaking has. "The wind; a clean and renewable power for boats for over 6,000 years!", "sailing, green sport since long before the internal combustion engine"

    I have been toying with the idea of building a skin-on-frame tri, with hulls similar to the way skin-on-frame kayaks are built. I could likely make a fun little tri for about $400 worth of materials. Not sure it would be a popular way to build a small tri, but it would be light and inexpensive.
     
  3. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

  4. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I think in many ways Richard's Strike 15 meets the brief for a good little sail trainer to keep it ultra simple use the laser rig option. Folds too, something else for me to think about and suggest at the next Multihull Yacht Club meeting.
     
  5. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    If you're going to an unstayed rig, a trimaran is a better platform to mount it. I might draw up a 5 metre version of 8 metre Sid, call it Simple Sid, with the pivoting beam but reduce overall beam a little, small floats, fixed shallow depth foils, drop through rudder. That would be a quick boat to trail and launch. Oh yes, good performer too.
     

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  6. tamas
    Joined: May 2009
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    tamas Junior Member

    I think most comments hit the mark about getting anyone into sailing these days, we need to win the Americas cup again to generate interest, our yacht club which is a TS club (no dinghy's) have found it best to target adults to learn to sail and not kids. We tried that but ended up selling 3 of our 5 training boats. We seem to get a better hit and retention rate targeting adults.

    I see the converter is not a cheap boat either, see one here http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sailing-trimaran/converter-tri-c21-new/11424

    A friend just bought an F22 and it was about $53k, out of my league but I would sell the wife to get one if she was worth that much. I sold my TS for $12.5k (it was worth $18 in a good market) and need to replace it with a TRI for similar $. So I decided to build the main hull and use an existing hi-performance beach cat for amas. It should come in for about $7k. That is my solution.

    The wife wants the balance for a bathroom reno, how the F#!k does that work!!!
     
  7. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    lets put together a list of features that could make an entry level small tri. perhaps we can evolve it into a one design specification.

    Both the shike15 and your Sid look like nice tris, but more complicated than I would want to build or expect to call an entry level boat. No lifting foils please, too costly and would likely require more skill to safely operate that may scare off beginners. that would be fine for a "move up" build or purchase, but not for an entry level boat.

    to keep costs low perhaps it can use the Lazar rig, rudder and dagger board? These are cheap and plentiful in most places. Might also consider a sailboard rig, is there one particular type that is common?

    Rather than folding or articulating beams, to keep it simple and low cost, I think using dismountble amas and beams would be much simpler, lighter and inexpensive. Using lashings or even heavy bungee chord loops to hold it all together I think works well and is simple and cheap.
     
  8. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    do not look for logic, except perhaps for "female logic". keep her happy or it will get real expensive for you later.:D
     
  9. proagenesis
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    proagenesis Junior Member

    low cost plans and materials

    hello ....

    any one looking for a free plan to building the lowest cost multi on the planet
    can look at this >

    http://proafile.com/forums/viewthread/233/


    regards the team of proagenesis
     
  10. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    So I sketched a 5.5m Simple Sid. Here's the main hull; it looks a little too racy at the moment so I'll do another version later. Because it is an interesting project: a simple, easy to build design, (I'm thinking tensioned ply or strip planked light wood or foam/glass), everything basic, not much material so to keep costs down, small floats with fixed angled fairly low aspect ratio foils.
    Petros, whatever boat you have, will still need dagger or centreboard and rudder; they're all foils.
    The simplicity of fixed foils is like old time Piver designs with their small fins. The idea is a good one but Piver's were too small.
    Imo, a multihull HAS to sail well to windward; get that right and the other points of sail are pretty easy to achieve.
    The advantage of small floats and fixed foils is that the material cost and weight is down but you get power and safety from the lifting foils; a win, win situation. But yes, I am a little biased.
    Connecting beams could be strip planked wood,foam/glass or alloy. If you clamp them down to widened main hull deck, then the floats could remain attached; just pick up the assembly in one piece and place it fore and aft on main hull on trailer. I'm thinking of square overall beam to accommodate this. Just an idea. Many other solutions are possible.
     

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  11. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

  12. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    One of the simplest boats I have ever built was a Piver "Frolic".
    16ft, fun and fast.
    I built it in the single car space under the high rise Apt block we lived in.
    I designed, and built in, two fixed daggerboards, like leeboards, on the floats and eliminated the centre dagger board. That left a long and wide enough space in the main hull for one person to sleep in under a boom tent.
    It had a simple self tacking jib on a boom, and was legally trail-able without having to hinge, slide or fold anything.
    Cost next to nothing. Using "Good one side" exterior grade Douglas fir ply, bronze ringnails and powdered waterproof glue it was fine.
    Painted with green "Cuprinol" on the inside and exterior house paint on the outside it didn't rot. The mast, crossbeams, booms and tiller were wood, the mast was an alloy section, (my only $ splurge), but I could have used alloy tube. I had the book "Make your own sails" and I did just that, using heavy gauge polyethelene and duct tape.
    Worked well and my two young teen boys had a barrel of fun on it, in any weather, for a couple of years.
    Plans are still available.
     
  13. bregalad
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    bregalad Senior Member

    @oldsailor7 - "Green Cuprinol"! I remember that stuff. Now that dates us.
    "powdered waterproof glue"? Resourcinol, or Plastic Resin Glue?

    I built a bunch of stuff with the Plastic Resin Glue. Brown powder you mix with water, it was called water resistant. As a test, long after Epoxy became the incumbent technology I built a pair of 9' long Oars using Dap's Plastic Resin Glue. I didn't finish them except for an occasional swipe with some oil. Twenty plus years of alternate wet and dry produced no de-laminations.

    I'm still not convinced it isn't a viable glue for many applications. There are lot's of places where I would choose epoxy as a first choice, but also many where the less expensive spread would serve as well.
     
  14. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    2far2drive Senior Member

    This is coming in from a semi-young guy (28) so perhaps it will be informative.

    I grew up just barely above the poverty line so sailing was not a very viable option for my family when I was young. The only boating we did was fishing because both my father/grand parents and my mom were avid fishers. The concept of sail in my mind until my late teens was "rich people". As my families status slowly changed to middle class my perceptions didnt, however I got into surfing.. enter water addiction. My aunt did a sunset charter here in Galveston Bay and that hooked me. The captain patiently answered all of my stupid questions (how much does a basic boat cost? how far can I sail? can this boat sail around the world? wow... the average joe CAN DO THIS!).

    I returned from a prolonged surftrip in Mexico where I met a few other sailors and I decided to take the leap. The next thing I knew, I owned a Catalina 25 that I bought for $3000. Some new running rigging, a dash of paint, lots of varnish and elbow greese, sailing classes from Sea Stallion and at 23 years old, I was the master of my world. I sailed like there no other thing to do. Every weekend I would drive 130miles round trip and spend all weekend on my boat.

    I had no idea about multis for quite some time. Even then, I considered them "sport boats". I wanted to "cruisssssssse". I also subscribed to the totally unrealistic school of thought that multis are inherently dangerous. I also had no idea people built boats of any kind. I guess I just was not raised around that. My grandfather built 3 houses from hand, one of which I helped a great deal in, but I never considered that people built their own watercraft.

    Again... enter Sea Stallion (from this board, buc 28 owner)

    He showed me kayaks. Dinghys. and multihulls. He got me a copy of Chris White's "The Cruising Multihull" and after 2 front to back reads, I was fully converted. After watching Stallion's builds, I also became fully converted as a builder of watercraft.

    I lost my boat during hurricane Ike and afterwards I bought a Hobie 14 turbo. I have never felt such a rush from the raw speed. I remember the first time I launched it off a local beach and finally got out of irons. I cracked off on a reach and the speed was blinding! I later took a 5 day 200 mile trip up the coast of Texas via inland waterways and bays on that same boat (Texas 200) and I saw the other ways to use it other than burning around the bay embarressing monoslows.

    These days I dream of quitting my IT job and building production boats in a little yard somewhere on the pacific coast of Mexico. who knows... might happen.

    After rebuilding the Buc 28 I have moved on to my own boat. Im in the middle of a strike 18 build from Richard Woods and currently delayed due to new home purchase remodeling (bought a foreclose). My goal is to be sailing by winter in the tri and I will do anything I can to make it happen. I have an Everglades Challenge in my sights for 2014 if I can get the boat rigged and set up properly before then.

    Multis and sailing in general just doesnt hit home with many people here in Texas I guess. The multi crew is a very small and elite group and Im proud to be a part of it. In some wierd way (surfers naturally do this), I almost dont want people to join us. I like being on the fringe. I like the wierd eclectic boats and designers and builders that I know about. I do wish there were more of us, but not hordes as currently seen in surfing and surfing movies. call me selfish..I do wish we had an active multi club here in Texas but its very small and usually limited to Fboats from what I know of it.

    I recently showed some friends my obsession with large racing multis and boats such as Banque Populaire V etc. Some of them had no idea what a trimaran even was!!! I guess the exposure just isnt there besides the current America's Cup racing. But from the heavy digging I do on the net and into people, even in our multi crowd there are serious lines in the sand and the same ignorance that we see from the outside. Most heavy beachcat guys (troll their forums and check me, you'll see what I mean) dont know squat about "sailing". Sure they are good cat sailors/racers but they still call "line" a "rope" and things like that. The true nomenclature is lost to the majority of them. Most F-boaters would gawk at a proa, at least the ones around here. Most F-boaters ive ever met dont know the words "newick", "brown", "Cross", "piver".... seems odd they couldnt know the fathers of the craft they are sailing. But perhaps I just dig too much.

    I agree that the Woods Wizard 22 is the optimal boat for someone like me who wants a microcruiser that can be trailed and do all or some of the things the big boats do. In fact, I plan to build the Sango (25ft version, still trailable) in a few years time for a Bahamas boat. If I were brave enough (working on a plan to make it happen), I would build Wizards and Sangos as production boats in my dream pacific mexico location while I surf my brains out as well. Sure, who would buy them... but my mind isnt capitolistic. Can I keep eating/surfing from the sale of one of my boats? yes I can. Perhaps I should follow this dream one day...

    my strike18 build http://www.flickr.com/photos/astraltx/sets/72157633360800603/
     
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  15. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    You do need to get out of Houston ....

    :)

    Let's work on the IT solution to your problems.

    Wayne
     
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