Why did the Titanic tour submarine implode?

So, what about bending? Composite spars of glider wings or free-standing carbon masts are tensioned on one side and compressed on the other. If the fiber did not add the strength on compression, than the bending strength of the spar would be just twice as high as without the fiber. While is much higher...

regards

krzys

 

This is not exactly relevant to this discussion since the construction and forces are not the same, but I do think it's interesting how this carbon fiber cylinder fails. Video should be queued to the carbon cylinder for your convenience.

Edit: it's not queued. Carbon is at ~4min and titanium is at 7:10.

 

I don't know where to start...perhaps with Castigliano's Theorem? Have you had a class on the distribution of strain energy?

 

Salvaged debris from Titan submersible contains 'presumed human remains': US Coast Guard https://www.yahoo.com/gma/debris-titan-submersible-brought-ashore-161416927.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=0_00

 

Interesting comments here:
Japan expert shares experience aboard deep-sea submersible similar to doomed Titan - The Mainichi https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20230626/p2a/00m/0li/011000c

"...The submersible was in constant contact with the boat on the surface and its current position could always be confirmed on screen.
Another submersible was deployed at a distance, ready to assist in the event of an emergency...."

That says it all.

 

For what its worth, this details of the items recovered, and a sensible commentary may be of interest.
Missing front porthole ...

 

I have seen a lot of commentary llke this in YT, one even claiming to be a structural design analyst. WHERE is the computations? Where is the proof?

See, it is right there in the background,

 

So, speculation will be high, but say tbe porthole rated for 1300M or 25% of the dove depth was the failure. Does anyone consider the operator's actions criminal?

Imagine a carmaker building a car that'll do 120mph, but the wheels are only rated for 30 mph. Or an airplane designed for flight at 30,000 feet with a cabin pressure system capable of 7500 feet or a speed of 400mph and a windshield rated for 100mph.

The only question is do any of the people still involved in Oceangate get held to account or is Rush indicted by his own hubris and already sentenced? I find the whole misadventure a criminal act. It is my opinion.

 

Let's wait with the verdict until the surveyors have come to a conclusion on the failure (or sequence of failures).

 

Entirely fair; the failure of the window may not have been 1st.

 

What makes you think the portlight failed?
Just because it's missing doesn't mean it failed.

 

The viewport was not the initiation of this casualty; that much is obvious from the debris recovered. Might as well claim a megalodon or kraken; this is not a chicken little moment or item.

Ill considered, yes; subject to civil liability, probably; but criminal means that you have to prove a higher motive. For it to be criminal the operators had to know it was going to fail with loss of life on that dive and proceeded anyway. Having dove submarines and written their damage control books; I know the hundreds of ways the vessel could be lost and I, with all the other occupants, die. But knowing what could happen and knowing that it will happen are not only two different things, but two different intents.

Please make up your mind; it is either "misadventure" (a finding by a coroner that the death of a person was the result of an accident or of another person's negligence other than criminal negligence) or "involuntary manslaughter" or “criminally negligent homicide” (both of which requires a mens rea or mental state of gross negligence or heat of passion in absence of malice). Since the TITAN was a US owned un-documented vessel on the high seas, and even though all the occupants were "expedition members"; I doubt that you can apply 18 U.S.C. § 1115, the Seaman's Manslaughter Statute, which criminalizes any misconduct or negligence that result in deaths involving vessels (ships and boats) on waters in the jurisdiction of the United States. Note that to be "criminal" then "mental state of gross negligence" must be proved. That means "the willful, wanton, and reckless conduct affecting the life or property or another" must be proved. While it may be "willful"; since any vessel is a potential casualty, and if the calculations showed it works, how could it then also be considered "wanton (i.e. undisciplined in this case) and reckless"? And in that case why aren't all vessels "criminal" cases? That decision is not going to happen in a Boat Design Forum thread.

As I said before, you don't want to beat, bang, and bash this isolated specific incident to be applied to all home-build and operated vessels. That is a very slippery slope and given that even the commercial maritime community, with all its rules and regulations, suffers several thousand casualties each year, I doubt there would be any change in true safety. In 2022, USCG counted 636 boating fatalities nationwide, the vast majority of those in vessels that meet federal requirements. Compare that to 961 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles in 2021 as counted by US DoT. Compared to the TITAN, a human moving at high speed, un-protected by any structure and maneuvering with 2 ton objects also traveling at high speed seems absolutely insane, yet we see and give "likes" to people's posts on social media every day. Is that "criminal" in your opinion?

While it is always sad when people lose their lives, especially in preventable ways; it must be remembered that safety is not really what life is about. If we want to focus on safety, why do we permit things like the Vendee Globe, Monaco Grand Prix, Giro d'Italia or Tour de Suisse to exist where sailors, drivers, cyclist take risk and are occasionally killed? Life itself is "manifestly unsafe", and it us up to each individual to decide how comfortable they are to the closeness of the Abyss.

 

To answer that, you need to cite which Law has been broken or violated.
Currently, there is none..

 

Mine is largely a query. If I take a tone of indictment; that may be possible, but I am still trying to make sense of it.

3rd degree murder, in some US states, which are certainly not relevant jurisdictions, is when your actions are of a depraved mind and result in the death of others...

Is it not true the porthole was rated for 1300M; not 4000M? It seems depraved to me to take the vessel passed 1300 then. Maybe not to others, but to me so.

I don't have to make up my mind. I am trying to decide.

If no laws were broken; it is certainly not criminal, but still plenty awful, imo.

All the best friends, I've been terribly busy.

 

I full well understand, the buckling of the pressure vessel from dirt and air in the laminate would have likely blasted the window, rated for 1300M to bits. I never made any claim about the failure, but have an opinion the carbon or ring bonds failed, based on the work we saw.