Why are sails tall instead of wide?

Discussion in 'Hydrodynamics and Aerodynamics' started by BlubBlub, Jan 26, 2026.

  1. BlubBlub
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    BlubBlub Junior Member

    Wide seems more stable.
     
  2. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    If you want to only go downwind (i.e. AWA ~135-225) wide vs tall makes no difference....Viking longships, Spanish carracks, etc. If you want to go upwind, then it is all in the Aspect Ratio (i.e. span (hoist)^2/sail area). The whole reason for lateen of old and the bermuda rigs we see today. Yes a wide rig has a lower center of effort, but gets less "lift" to windward; so it is a trade-off.....and to go into gaff and tall ship rigs we will need to get into a whole lot of aerodynamic theory about how they work.
     
  3. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Yes

    The sails are tall forming 1 Wing with 2 Elements and effective Aspect Ratio of 3.3 ... because the bias of the modern sailboats (1930-) is beating Upwind

    A) with an Angle of Attack of 25-30 degrees and
    B) a wind speed between 7 and 14 knots
     
  4. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    It depends on the desired heading relative to the wind (W)

    1 Wing constructed with 2 sails

    Lift: 100 Newtons
    Drag: 20 Newtons

    1, 2, 3, or 5 Sails

    Lift: 100 Newtons
    Drag: 100 Newtons

    1 Parachute

    Lift: 20 Newtons
    Drag: 100 Newtons

    IMG20260127135748.jpg
     
  5. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    In other words

    first, we must distinguish three very different planets or worlds:

    Upwind
    Reaching
    Downwind

    and, within the upwind planet, we must distinguish different regions depending on the angle of attack and wind speed
     
  6. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    IMG20260127141531.jpg


    Upwind: 1 Wing constructed with 2 Elements: 2 Sails

    Reaching: 1, 2, 3 ... 5 Sails

    Downwind: Parachutes
     
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Carlos hijacks a thread again with his usual nonsense, giant photos and double/triple spacing to make the posts even larger. His conspiracy theories about the downfall of society because boats can point well upwind are really nonsensical.
    Boats that can't sail upwind are like a car that only drives downhill.
     
    bajansailor and Doug Halsey like this.
  8. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Further Offshore

    Further offshore : ocean racing, fast cruising, modern yacht handling and equipment : Illingworth, John H : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive https://archive.org/details/furtheroffshoreo0000illi/mode/1up

    The curious thing is that the modern sailing Yacht was born twice: in 1930 with fractional 3/4 rig, and in 1947 with John Illingworth

    And both forms became extinct in the mainstream around 1979

    In other words: the rigging of sailboats depends on which regattas are the most famous at any given time.
     
  9. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Beowulf

    Beowulf beat Mari Cha III in the Caribbean, a Yacht almost twice as long, by flying lower sails ... Reaching
     

    Attached Files:

  10. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    Why did this motorboat need such an astronomically large mast?

    On a sailing yacht, it's debatable; but on a motorboat... it's simply insane

    Trying to find rationality in this industry is a recipe for melancholy
     

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  11. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    On a distant planet in a far away galaxy ... explorers would find:

    a multitude of small sailboats with fractional rigs (3/4) and large, rotating bowsprits

    a lot of cruisers with chinese rigs

    large yacht with two short masts
     
  12. CarlosK2
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    CarlosK2 Senior Member

    About Fractional 3/4

    "What's the reason for having the hounds below the tip? Aerodynamically it doesn't make sense, since it promotes local tip stalling as your calcs show. This is why a leading edge slat on a wing always goes all the way to the tip."

    Bell Spanload Implications for Sailing? https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/bell-spanload-implications-for-sailing.59464/page-2

    ---

    Yes, exactly

    But the reason is Power/Depowering Control

    in seconds the rig is shorter

    with 1 rope you have

    +/- AoA
    -/+ Camber
    +/- Twist

    and

    -/+ "h": vertical distance Lateral hydroForce - AeroForce

    It's versatility in a changing environment

    ---

    The Lift coefficient can be adjusted between 1.4 and 0.7

    And

    At the same time, the rigging can be shortened, which is why the cables don't reach the top.
     
  13. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Carlos, please have some respect and stop taking over threads.
     
    bajansailor, baeckmo and Doug Halsey like this.

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