Why a Yawl or Ketch instead of a sloop

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by saltydog123, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    boats designed by capable designers have hulls with different parameters in relation to their sailing rig
     
  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Windraf, you wouldn't know the difference between a hull setup to optimize any particular rig. Better yet, why don't you explained what the major hull differences would be, from a sloop to a schooner (for example). Simply put, you constantly "spout off" but never seem to offer anything substantive or quantifiable.
     
  3. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    is too difficult for you, PAR
     
  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Might suggest you read back thru this subject thread,...there is some interesting discussions/submissions.
     
  5. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum.

    I would not remove the mizzen under any circumstances. I race a yawl every second weekend of the year and we routinly beat more modern boats. Listen to PAR, he has more experience than any of us with this type of thing.

    PAR; I just got back from sailing a 44' Choy Lee sloop from San diego to Cabo, and found out the hard way that even having modern electric winches and reefing gear DOES NOT preclude things going very wrong, very quickly, with large sails and a small crew.

    As an airplane designer, i know we design for positive interferance between closely associated aerodynamic surfaces; slotted flaps, and the trailing edge of a Kitfox or Junkers Ju-52 being very visible examples.

    Steinlarger 2, designed by Bruce Farr, who was a snot nosed kid when i was beating him in Cherubs, is a fantastic example of a mizen seperated just enough to get positive interference between the sails.

    Not knowing a thing about your ketch, i would at least explore shortening the main boom to make the mainsail higher aspect ratio, and incerasing the 'gap' between main TE and the mizzen mast. Given more information about your particular boat, im sure the main boom could be further shortened and the mizzen moved forward, or conversly the mizzen moved further aft.

    Note; The mizzen needs to be really 'flat cut' i.e. much less camber than the main. If yours does not, perhaps a row of grommets near the foot will allow you to temporally 'flatten' the sail as a test.

    Note; i once sailed a ketch that had had its mizzen removed from the center of the cockpit for social reasons. This was in the Caribbean where there was plenty of wind. It sailed like a pig reaching, beating was very weak and squirrily, running was merely OK.
     
  6. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Critically , what's the design? Alternatively post some pictures of your boat including the underwater profile.

    To convert a ketch to a cutter rigged sloop is common but the mainmast is shorter than a sloops and you usually need to move the mast aft and add some foresails and maybe a bowsprit to get your light air sail area.
    Sail 'balance' and sail area are the principal factors, providing the designer did a good job in the first place.

    Mizzens can certainly ruin a small boats livability .
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm not asking myself the question Windraf, I'm asking you. I understand the subject quite well (having designed and built dozen of sloops and ketches), but the real question is if you understand. Since you have failed at every attempt to answer every single question (in this regard) that you've been asked, offering only either more off topic questions, or suggesting others haven't the "understanding themselves" as your only reply, it seems blatantly obvious, you're little more then a troll and don't have any real answers.

    If you want members to respect your posts windraf, then show us what you actually know, rather then turn to insults as your only type of reply. Thus far this has been your only course for reply, other then misdirection and off topic course changes.
     

  8. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    I wont help you, PAR.
    Your way to ask is incompatible with my nature.
    Just read this thread and others, to see that I'm not the only one.

    You refuse to see the difference between the bluenose and a brig.
    And you want, with brutality, that I explain you the difference in the parameter of the hull between a sloop and a ketch?
    How many boats you drew don't mean nothing, for me.
     
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