Who'd be a designer?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Freenacin, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. Freenacin
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 48
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 44
    Location: Earth

    Freenacin Junior Member

    Think designing catamarans for home builders would be fun?

    Maybe, but you'd have to deal with people who really don't know how to read plans, no matter how simple or clear they might seem. Even worse when they publish their mistakes in print and on the web, and blame YOU for them!

    From http://www.thecoastalpassage.com.au/bblog3.html

    "I found an anomaly in the plans that will cost a little work but it could have been worse. The big red arrow and the dotted line it points to are objects I put there to show the actual end of the chamfer panel. The dotted line to the left of that is where the plans indicated the end of the chamfer panel. The problem it caused was that I was about to cut off material on the deck panel as it appeared to be over long relative to the chamfer panel. I stopped short of making the cut but did do the under deck support before I found out the error in plans. see below..

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    I was just about to cut off the deck panel to be even with the chamfer panel as the plans indicated. As it is I will have to scarf in another piece of pipe for the support and fair it off later. It turns out that the deck is meant to overhang the chamfer panel. I have made the designer aware of the problem so assume it will be fixed in future plans but this makes a good point about keeping alert. I give myself a C+ grade for spotting it before I cut but after the support glassing."


    Take a look at the plans in the photo. Does it say to cut the deck? Nooooo!
    It says to cut the chamfer panel and the inner sheer panel. No mention of cutting the deck.

    It also says to do this "When fitting BWBB" . That is, when fitting Back Web, Back Beam. The back web is fitted after the hulls are joined. But this guy hasn't got his hulls joined!

    So he was cutting the wrong part, and doing it at the wrong stage. But somehow it was the designer's fault!

    It would seem, seeing as he has still got this on his blog, he still doesn't realize that the photo of the plan shows HE has made the mistake.

    And he gave himself a C+ for this!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 6,972
    Likes: 912, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Freenacin

    The problem comes about because a 'designer' will draw up some plans for 'someone'. Said person goes and builds the boat from said plans drawn. If the contract between the designer and builder is just to supply basic dwg's, owing to cost implications, then the details will not be shown. As such you as the builder, will be the 'detailer', since you're building it!

    If this is the first boat built from the plans, you're the guinea pig.

    But if you're not, then the designer has either i) not been made aware of the error, of ii) has and hasn't updated the dwg, as this is considered "beyond the scope", ie why change something i'm no longer being paid for. That is where a degree of professionalism comes into it.

    Bottom line is, you only get what you pay for.
     
  3. Freenacin
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 48
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 44
    Location: Earth

    Freenacin Junior Member

    Probably true, but not in this instance. The designer didn't actually make a mistake. The builder clearly hasn't read the plans, because his mistake is actually visible in the photo: he was cutting the deck, where the plan clearly states to trim the chamfer and sheer panels.

    Not a big deal, except when you publish on the internet that the designer made the mistake. Then it could potentially harm the designer's reputation, and possibly his income, when in fact the plans were correct.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 551
    Likes: 20, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 111
    Location: TO

    ThomD Senior Member

    That's the problem with the internet, it really isn't publishing, it's just stuff that is out there, normally by people who don't have a clue. It's great because everyone is out there; it sucks because most of them don't know what they are doing.

    While I get your point that this case it isn't the designer's fault, I have come across major eror's in most of the boats I have built or been involved in building. From simple things like mistaken dimensions, to huge conceptual mistakes that totally change everything. Since a lot of multihull designs use developed panel build systems that are never actually drawn out, it can end up with some pretty radical mistakes.

    Just the other day I wrote Kendrick about some displacement issues with his S18 design. I like the design but the carrying capacity had me worried. He spoted the problem with his weight budget and posted a correction right away, and drew attention to it. I call that pretty quick. A lot of folks are using a combination of computers and other methods, or non-integrated programs, so mistakes are pretty easy to make. If systems were totaly integrated, bad numbers would be less possible.

    One thing I liked about Kurt Hughes' CM boats was that he was upfront about the fact that they could be flukie and were for advanced builders who could make adjustments on the fly. Of course that kind of talk is just as likely to attract some people as turn them off. Still, you were warned.
     
  5. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 551
    Likes: 20, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 111
    Location: TO

    ThomD Senior Member

    I didn't read that part, though I was reminded on another thread of this book I had read by a guy who built his first canoe, and simultaniously wrote a canoe building book about it that was published by a marine publisher. Not a bad book for all of that, but come on.
     
  6. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    Freenacin,

    Do make sure you contact the builder and show him the error of his ways, he may be good enough to admit his errors and let the error become a lesson to others....we all know how to " measure twice and cut once".....same goes with plans and building.

    I was working in a yard in Shanghai, making a very nice yacht, and missread a very precise designers plan, simply because i could not see the 3D pic in 2 D, fortunately nothing came from it as the yard manager looked at me like i was from outer space, explained the simple understanding of the flat sheet development I was involved in looking at, and i could then only see it the right way, it was a bit like these pics we see that are puzzles, sometimes we do see things differently....be kind to the poor bugger, he is only trying, but certainly have him fix your situation too, not nice to be criticised when you are in fact correct......such is life.
     
  7. Freenacin
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 48
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 44
    Location: Earth

    Freenacin Junior Member

    Landlubber, after reading your post I re-read my original post and realised I might have left the impression I was the designer involved.

    I'm not. I've built boats, but never been tempted to design.
     
  8. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    Oh OK mate, but I do feel sorry still for the designer.
     
  9. Freenacin
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 48
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 44
    Location: Earth

    Freenacin Junior Member

    That's why I posted this. I felt the designer should be entitled to some form of come back, with his plans being publicly and unfairly criticized on the internet. Bob isn't really the kind to jump on a forum and do it himself.

    In another part of the blog we're discussing, the plans are described as "a few sheets of A4" or words to that effect. I've seen Bob Oram's plans, and for a start the ones I saw were on A3 paper, and there are somewhere near 100 sheets of it.

    Quite different to the description given in TCP.
     
  10. TTS
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 112
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 28
    Location: New Hampshire

    TTS Senior Member

    Having built a couple of boats, one from plans and one from a designer, I found that there were times that I needed to question the designer and get clarifications and modifications to the plans. The Tornado was an easy build. A Chris White designed Trimaran was much different. Chris was very professional and visited the project throughout the build to consult with us about changes that needed making or new ideas and approaches to a problem.
     
  11. eastcape
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 50
    Likes: 5, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 62
    Location: NZ

    eastcape Senior Member

     

  12. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,004
    Likes: 297, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    Situations like this is the reason why we do not sell plans to home builders, or to 'yards' without record. In any case, designer's supervision always helps, even via email by sending photos.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.