Who knows motorsailor Marina 75

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by Jogi, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. Jogi
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Jogi crasy sailor

    Hi,
    I'm interested in the motor sailor Marina 75 (built in Finland, Jutahela) and I'd like to by this ship, but I didn't find anythig about the quality of sailing this boat. Is there anybody with good practice in sailing the Marina 75?

    Can you sail close to the wind?
    What speed will be possible on different courses? How much wind is necessary to sail the boat (beaufort) min.?
    What is the max. wind for sailing the Marina 75 (beaufort)? Is it able to sail the Marina 75 on open sea? And so on...Please let me know your experience.

    Let me know more about this very nice oldtimer
    Best regards
    Jorgen
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If it's a motorsailor then it's sailing abilities will be moderately to fairly limited. It's the nature of the concept. You don't buy a motorsailor for it's windward abilities, you buy it for the size engine it has to drive you to windward.

    Without a much better description, a photo , year, builder, design and other information it's unlikely you'll get much information about this boat. Personally I've never heard of a Marina 75 and my data base doesn't include any references to one.
     
  3. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    viking north VINLAND

    JOGI google Marina 75 lots of info and photos available--Geo.
     
  4. Jogi
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    Jogi crasy sailor

    Marina 75

    Hi,
    I already googled and found a lot, but nothing about sailig abilities of Marina 75. My idea was, to meet an owner in this forum, who has expeprience. Sorry
    Jogi
     
  5. Jogi
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Berlin, Germany

    Jogi crasy sailor

    Marina 75

    Hi,
    I already googled and found a lot, but nothing about sailig abilities of Marina 75. My idea was, to meet an owner in this forum, who has expeprience. Sorry. It's clear that you can'nt compare a motorsailor with high performance sailboat. But there are big differences between motorsailors.

    Marina 75 description: built 1979, shipyard: Jutahela, Finland, hull: GFK, other informations you find in the attachment.

    Kind regards
    Jogi
     

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  6. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    In comparison to a Fisher the Marina has a proper keel - she is more of a crusing sailboat design and as such i suspect would have good but not great windward capabilities certainly better than a Fisher. From a gut feeling i would classify her as a from a 40/60 maybe as high as a 30/70 motor to sail characteristics. Certainly a vessel that has windward ability equivalent to a medium to heavy crusing sailboat. I am a big fan of motorsailers and in the process of building one on very similar lines as the Marina--She'd make an excellent live aboard coastal cruiser for two. Those big glass areas would make me cautious regarding big ocean crossings. Let me study her a little more and i will post my other impressions.I'm sure fellow posters will give you lots of input as well, maybe a Marina owner or two. In your search did you read the 2004 Marina thread posted on this forum--Geo.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner
     
  7. Jogi
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    Jogi crasy sailor

    Hi viking north,
    thank you very much for your replay.
    "A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner"
    I agree. I like wooden oldtimers like MARINA 75, even if you have much to care. But in a few years I will have more time to care for it - then I'll be pensioner! I plan to cruise in Baltic and Mediterranean sea. Crossing the oecean to America is not my intention (maybe to Canaries or other Islands near to the continent).
    I would be glad to hear (listen) from you
    best regards
    Jogi
     
  8. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Marina 75 has a SA/D ratio of 11 under working sails and also considering her aspect ratio, she's clearly intended to motor to windward. Her D/L is about 265, so she'll be fairly comfortable in a blow and again combining this with her SA/D she'll need a pretty good breeze just to get underway. Even carrying her big genoa her SA/D is only 13.25, so . . . you'll be motoring more then sailing in this old lass, though at times you can increase her range and certainly her "enjoyment factor" under canvas.
     
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  9. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Ahh -- PAR --I knew you'd come on line--there you go Jogi from a man who knows his stuff--(i'm just a builder and sailer) Like all motorsailers, She'll slog to windward but thats what motors are for. With sails up fire up your motor set your rpm just high enough to tack into it as if she were a regular sail boat. With the motor ticking over she'll tack with the best of them. You'll have no problem reaching hull speed with a moderate to stiff breeze on the beam and with that long keel and deep rudder she handle better than most in a following sea. From PARS numbers she's probably more in the 50/50 range not a bad position in the motorsailer class at all. Just for interest when ever i motorsail for long periods with the engine just ticking if possible drop the sails and run under engine alone at or near hull speed (1800 to 2000 rpm.)say the last half hour of your trip to clear out any built up carbon from running at slow rpm. Motorsailers are my type of vessel so excuse me if i seem biased. Nice looking boat-- Geo.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner--
     
  10. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Just to add to my prev. post, wouldn't be a bad idea to change out that motor to something in the 20 hp. range space permitting. My present motorsailer build 28 ft. plus feet projected displacement between 8000 to 9000 lbs, I'm installing a 3cyl. yanmar I believe around 26hp. My previous builds in the 10,000 lbs. displacement ranges ran 29hp. volvo and perkins (same engine painted different colours) I think the 12hp. listed is underpower and the 15 borderline especially if you're into heavy weather.-- Geo.
     
  11. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    viking north VINLAND

    Did more searching and came up with a couple of pieces of info-- A couple of marina 75's for sale listed upgrades to Yanmar 25hp and also showed a photo-- looks like space wise it is not a problem. One for sale advertisement by a broker stated she was good under sail--he actually stated she was more of a sailer than a motorboat--take it for what it's worth a sales pitch or reality.:p That keel indicates to me she should not be a bad sailer but her SA/D certainly indicates she's handicapped in light airs. Maybe she was built for areas not normally burdened with light air. :) One needs to find a sailer/owner or actually take her out for a trial. Hopefully a member or lurker owner will pick up on the post--Geo.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner--
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  12. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've previously mentioned what I think about anything out of the mouth of a broker. They're used car salesmen and frankly finding one to say nothing but lovely things, seems an oxymoron.

    The only indication of hull shape I have is the plank runs, which suggest a quick up turn to the buttocks aft. This is very typical of short overhang double enders and is a feature that makes windward ability limited, especially in heavy air.

    I'd agree that a 25 HP upgrade isn't a bad thing, but calling it a good sailor wouldn't be anything but hyperbole from a professional BS artist. She's a baseball center fielder, but using a sailor's sewing palm as a glove.
     
  13. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    As they say if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck,quacks like a duck, the odds are it's a bloody duck and as such ya gotta motorsail to windward. In otherwords do to it what it was designed to do. As for the broker, i was suppose to insert the green head with the big tongue after the word "reality"--enough said on that subject. A few months ago flew down to New York City to do a survey on a big power Cat for a friend of mine from South Carolina. The listing and the Broker on the phone stated in excellent condition. On viewing i found numerious stress cracks running from the rear port hull up the superstructure and likewise on the forward starboard area. I suspected and it was confirmed later by a yard worker she had gotten caught in a big storm in route from Florida and actually had been towed in with coastguard assist. She had been heavly torqued, (twisted and thus the mulitude of cracks). On followup I learned later she was written off as a total loss. In this case I'll leave the oxi out when referring to the Broker. :)
    PAR A sewing pam as a glove--ouch--- a kinder rating would have been a three finger Black Diamond mitt--
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yea George, I did reach a bit with the sewing palm. maybe winter mittens for the kids would have made a better analogy? In anything less the small craft advisories, that sail plan would be hard pressed to get that, seemingly well burdened set of shapes to hull speed, which was my half assed tongue in cheek intent. Hardly mustering hull speed with your sail plan isn't what I'd call a sailor. Don't get me wrong I like the look of the boat, though it does have a lot of deck structure windage for sailing, I think it could benefit from more area, say bringing working area SA/D to 15.5, with light air sails dragging it up to the mid 17's. Then she'd be a 60/40 with an engine of a 50/50 (25 HP up grade of course), making for the best of both worlds for a minimal investment.
     

  15. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    I'm not familiar with the average conditions in his sailing area maybe this design would be just what he needs and if the truth be known 75% of the guys out there just fire up the engine anyhow when faced with a long slug to windward. I know i do. It is a nice looking boat, that circular shaped cockpit must have been labour intensive. I have taken a photo and have been trying to locate the owner of a similar looking craft morred down south of here in the Ivey League sailing area "Chester/Mahone Bay just to have a closer look at it as it is close to what i am aiming for-- Could actually be a Marina 75 now that i have a name to go by. Anyhow if the price is right for Jogi, i think it would be cosy little coastal craft , all that glass will give it a bigger feel, Be ok in my book don't want any more long deep water excursions. Just putt putt along the coast, drop anchor early each evenig. fire up the barbe, crack open a cold beer or a drop a rum, maybe if no one is within earshot plunk on the git. box, i'm happy, :) By the way hope you're in the area when we get down in Feb. be good to, maybe do the same --Geo.
     

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