Whipstaff (broomstick) vertical tiller inside helm station - Roger Taylor's version...

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Angélique, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Just came across the Whipstaff steering system in some of Roger Taylor's videos - ---> - Junk Ming on YouTube.

    It's a vertical tiller made of a broomstick, which makes an inside helm station . . :cool:

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    Below a bit of history of the Whipstaff steering system, presented from onboard the 1626-1628 built Swedish warship Vasa.


    Whipstaff steering system on the 1626 1628 built Swedish warship Vasa.jpg

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    Vasa port side - ---> - 3,892 × 2,586 pixels
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  2. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The below video shows Roger in the Jester Challenge 2010, in the boat from which cabin the above Whipstaff videos were shot...

     
  3. dsigned
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    dsigned O.R.C. Hunter

    I can't believe he sailed back to the UK....did he put in at a harbor in North America first, or did he just sail straight back?

    Also, don't tell the ORCs, but I have quite a fondness for junk rigs...
     
  4. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Roger sails engineless, so he needed a port that he knew he could sail into without much physical effort in his condition at that time, hence the dangerous leeside west coast of Greenland was out. I'll guess the track to the UK was longer, but easier than to North America in the circumstances of that moment*, so he headed strait back to Plymouth in the UK.

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    Edit - Added: * The westerly gale at the time meant that to North America needed beating into the gale, that's why Roger didn't even mention that option in the video I'll guess, but @ ± 5:13 he did mention it was a westerly, hence Greenland's west coast was a lee shore, so running back to Europe looked to be the best option at that time with some broken ribs, not the boat, but in his chest that is. Roger knew it would be a long and painful trip, but also the safest option to get out of there, and also directly heading for home.

    @ ± 5:54 in the video: ‘‘ It's going to be a bit of a painful voyage I think, but uh well, there you go, you go to sea on your own and you got to take what comes. ’’
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    Below the approximate tracks of Mingming's voyages 2006 - 2011. - Note the 2010 track marks - - - > - - - > - - - > - - - > - - -

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    Scroll down to ‘‘MINGMING'S VOYAGE 2010’’ for the written 2010 story + pics, in addition to the video.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    This is a very old technology and nothing of any particular significance.
     
  6. Earl Boebert
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    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    Purely as an aside, it was used some years back by builders of Footy (12" LOA) class model yachts as a way of reducing the fore and aft length of the servo-to-rudder linkage. Before the advent of submicro servos, things got pretty crowded inside those little bobabouts. I'm always fascinated by the "nothing new under the sun" aspect of sailboat technology, big and little.

    Cheers,

    Earl
     
  7. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    This thread isn't about whipstaff steering being something new, post #1 dates back to 1626, it's more about that it's still possible to make good use of the system, eg to steer from inside when auto steering systems fail, or just when one wants to have a simple inside helm station, then all it needs is just a broomstick plus two ropes and some guide pulleys.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
    dsigned likes this.
  8. Earl Boebert
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    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    Oh, sorry, didn't mean to imply that anybody was claiming it was new, just posting a harmless aside about old technology surfacing in unlikely places. Apologies for the ambiguous wording.

    Cheers,

    Earl
     
  9. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    No problem at all Earl, so certainly no apologies needed, for me it was a welcome and interesting aside, if it was an aside at all, since it was on topic about whipstaff steering, on RC boats in this case, I've even looked up the Footy (1') class RC yachts for some more info. In my previous post, just as an addition to avoid misinterpretation, I wanted to make clear that my thought wasn't that whipstaff steering was something new, but something that still could be a useful feature in such a simple version . . :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  10. Earl Boebert
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    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    Thanks. Sometimes I think the internet is the greatest engine for generating misunderstanding that ever issued from the hand of man :)

    Cheers,

    Earl
     
  11. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    I don't wish to quibble, but is this really a whipstaff steering system? It seems to that it's a cable and pulley system using lever to pull the cable. The only component that is similar to a whipstaff system is the vertical pole.
     
  12. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Fred,

    It's the vertical pole that's called the whipstaff, you're correct that it here works via the well known cable and pulley system, in contrast to the ancient 100% lever system. The manual input however in both systems is given by the whipstaff, which makes it both a whipstaff operated steering system, I'll think.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  13. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    I always liked the vertical whipstaff as it eliminates the large swing radius footprint of a rudder handle. I understand how its done but would appreciate any more pics or drawings just for study purposes, very little info out there.
     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    A stick helm is about as simple a thing as it gets and little more than a horizontally mounted tiller, with similar attachments, as would be used on any other tiller or quadrant based steering system. Some time with a pencil and paper at the kitchen table, should yield a reasonable assembly.
     

  15. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    I think I agree, the Vasa whipstaff is like a vertical tiller extension and surprisingly complex for its time. It's also interesting that the boat goes in the direction that the staff is pushed. Teaching a novice helm to go left by pushing the tiller to the right is a significant challenge!

    @goodwilltoall: A tiller can be removable or hinged to lift up when not in use, freeing cockpit space. It would be interesting to see the constraints you're working with to understand the options available. You should consider all the pros and cons: a whipstaff may limit where the helm is located more than a traditional tiller with an extension.
     
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