Which wood?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Pippin, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    So show me on that page where it says Kauri grows in Western Australia ?
    It's not in the species list nor on the distribution map.
    I live here mate. :D
     
  2. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Confusing - what you say is correct. My research went like this.

    Many WA people think there is Kauri in WA. Like this article from the WA paper.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/21358213/welcome-extension-to-northland-kauri-dieback-programme/

    "many take the opportunity to explore the nearby kauri forests. It’s terrific that people want to appreciate our majestic kauri, but we ask that you follow a few simple precautions to help stop the spread of the deadly kauri dieback."

    and
    "Photo: Kauri-Trees-Ancient-Empire " ( bad description )

    http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Locat...3-Valley_of_the_Giants-Western_Australia.html
    " right in the heart of the Karri and Tingle tree canopies"
    ( the linked article got it right )


    and

    "...... through W.A's giant Kauri and Jarrah forests"
    http://www.awtours.com.au/tours_psw6.html



    Searching further, I came across this tourist info that says that the Kauri Pine can be found in Australia
    "The Kauri Pine tree, also known as the agathis, can be found across a number of Pacific countries and islands, including Australia,"
    https://www.ratestogo.com/blog/worlds-biggest-trees/

    This wood handbook says so too -
    "VICTORIA"
    "There is also a small quantity of plantation-grown bunya and southern kauri pines together with some brown pine from the original rain forests re-maining."


    and this bit of info from a tourist site -

    " One such specimen well worth poking a stick at is the Kauri Pine. Found solely on Fraser Island, around Maryborough, and just west of Cairns, the Kauri Pine is a charming tree that’s lived through a tumultuous past at the hands of hungry loggers."
    http://www.thalabeach.com.au/kauri-pine/

    so the Kauri Pine can be found in Queensland.( as the Wikipediae distribution list shows )
    but not in WA


    - however KARRI is used in shipbuilding -

    "WESTERN AUSTRALIA
    In Western Australia the sawmilling industry established in the south-west corner of the State has always catered for heavy structural requirements.......and Karri(heavy constructional work,shipbuilding,wagon building)"

    http://www.spiffa.org/uploads/2/6/7/5/2675656/australian_timber_handbook.pdf

    and this too

    KARRI (H) (OS)

    Karri (Eucalyptus diversicolor), is native to south-west Western Australia. It is one of Australia's tallest hardwood trees. Larger formats and clearer grades are more likely to be old growth (see note). Heartwood is moderately durable. Suitable for flooring, panelling, structural plywood, shipbuilding

    http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/good_wood/oz_pln.htm



    From all this - it seems that WA people confuse Karri and Kauri a lot ( and other people) , but the actual Kauri Pine is rare in Australia ( and not native to WA )

    But - Karri is used in shipbuilding.


    I bet the WA Kauri I met was WA Kirri marketed by illiterate wood merchants under the wrong name.
     
  3. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    PS - Queensland Kauri apparently doesn't rate well for boats

    "KAURI PINE (S)

    Kauri Pine (Agathis microstachya, palmerstonii, robusta) or Queensland Kauri, or Bull Kauri, is a large softwood native to the Cairns and Maryborough districts. Similar to, but slightly darker than Hoop Pine. Heartwood is not durable. Suitable for plywood, furniture, joinery, patternmaking, vats, kitchen utensils, battery separators, turnery, violin bellies. "
    http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/good_wood/oz_pln.htm
     
  4. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Wow, I had no idea kauri grew in Aus, its a magnificent wood with a long history in boatbuilding in NZ, we used to use it for almost all components when building cold molded boats. They are enormous trees that I don't think is milled anymore in NZ.

    Steve
     
  5. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Karri used to be used in housing construction before plantation pine came along.
    It was used for ridge beams etc because of the large boards available. It has long fibres unlike jarrah and is very hard on machine tools.
    I find it odd that it is recommended for boatbuilding as unlike jarrah it does not handle fresh water. If used outdoors in pergolas or such it is always painted and even that won't stop the rot. I wouldn't let it near a boat.
    These days it's only used in fine furniture.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Sleepers
    All aspects of the tendering process were subject to intense political scrutiny, and none more so than that for the supply of sleepers. Western Australia was the only state which still had large areas of forest containing timbers suitable for sleepers. The state’s timber industry was dominated by Millars’ Timber & Trading Co., and the Scaddan State Labor Government was anxious to break the company’s control over prices and to develop unworked karri forests. Although Deane considered jarrah to be the best sleeper timber, he was prepared to accept karri sleepers treated by powellising, a chemical treatment process. In April 1912, Scaddan announced the formation of the State Saw Mills, and commenced construction of mills at Manjimup and Pemberton. A contract for the supply of 1 400 000 powellised karri sleepers and 100 000 jarrah sleepers was finalised in August 1912.
    The winter of 1913 was an exceptionally wet one in the south west, so the original date for the start of sleeper deliveries was extended. However, because of further delays, the new Cook non-Labor Federal Government cancelled the contract in February 1914. This could have had a disastrous affect on the railway construction programme, had not a further agreement been signed with the State Saw Mills. Deliveries began in July 1914.


    Karri can't be too bad out in the weather, going on that. The "powellising" was apparently a patented treatment to counter white ant attack.
     
  7. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    If you look around the web you will see the same sentence on usage time and again, sleepers, shipbuilding blah blah blah, I'm not convinced.
    I used some inadvertently in my own deck, 35mm thick boards in good condition when layed, after 5yrs you could put your foot though it. The Jarrah either side was as good as the day it was layed. Pergola framing rots out from the top down, fascia boards just crumble where not flashed properly, Carpenters over here are fastidious about not using Karri outdoors because they know it will come back to bite them on the arse, and termites love the stuff, thats why it only went in roof timbers.
    Beautiful furniture timber though, the red hues can be stunning.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I guess there wasn't a hell of a lot of water around on the Nullabor to worry those sleepers ! Spotted Gum, another eucalypt mentioned earlier, is only sold treated, as it is subject to some borer or other, which probably explains why there was a fair bit of it left standing in logged areas, prior to the advent of the treatment.
     
  9. Pippin
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    Pippin Junior Member

    I have decided to go with Fijian kauri for the frames and stem mainly because of the price. 25x200mm $19.54/m ($39.07/m for Queensland maple). Beech is somewhere in between. I was thinking of spotted gum for the keel & battens for longitudinal strength and not much weight penalty in these areas.
     
  10. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Nearly $4000 per square metre for the Kauri.
    Hopefully, the spotted gum should be closer to 2/3 of that price.

    But, retail in the middle of a big city can be cruel, and its not like you are buying a huge amount.

    It sounds like a good combination. You might as well buy a lot extra in case of mistakes.

    The paint will probably cost you more than all the wood in the boat :p
     
  11. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Hope you mean cube RW.....

    not so bad really, Anagote stocks a range of exotic & semi just a little drive from Sydney CBD( http://www.news.com.au/finance/mone...t-expensive-city/story-fnagkbpv-1226570220558 ).... unfortunately ordinary wages don't reflect this...... Taswegians know how good they've got it;)... & the wood is cheaper too, how's supply down there?

    Regards from Jeff.

    here's another source, http://www.trendtimbers.com.au/complete-timber-list.html I've only used them once quite some time back for some White Beech, never been there as it's far out, just couriered.
     

  12. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Oh yeah, cubic it is :p

    Just for interest, I worked out I paid about $5000 per cub metre for Celery Top Pine in Tassie, so it would be an absolute fortune in Sydney.

    A tassie oak stud works out at $2600 per cm.

    Recently, Tah Ann, the hardwood veener place in southern tassie was selling 4mm structural hardwood ply sheets for $20. Great quality, but very heavy for boats. Going to get a whole lot for building though, if the the local merchant hasnt run out.

    The days of Tassie having the best boat building timber in the world for the best price are well and truly gone.
     
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