Which program suit me the best

Discussion in 'Software' started by Birol Ernalbant, Oct 10, 2002.

  1. Birol Ernalbant
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2
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    Location: Turkey

    Birol Ernalbant New Member

    Hello to all of you :) ,

    I just signed in as I found it very intersting to see so many people interested in this subject. I need some advasive from you people. I use Autocad since 1986 r.2.5. But it is very difficult to create quikly preliminary designs for the customer. I Just read down that you can put some parameters in like lenght draft beam chine etc and the program draws you a hull, renders let you draw cad give you hydrostatics and all the pif paf what a designer needs. Wich program suits the best for a Yacht designer, which for a shipyard and wich for a constructor or all in one. Could somebody give an advise:?: Thanks in advance :D .
     
  2. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
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    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    Hi Birol,

    First, welcome to the forums! I’m glad you decided to join. From a long time AutoCad user, you will be impressed by how easy the dedicated marine design programs make the preliminary design and then the modification of the hull compared to doing it in AutoCad. Going down memory lane, AutoCad was the very first computer program I ever touched, starting with R11 on a 386 DX with a lightning-fast math coprocessor installed and a whopping 40 MB hard drive and 8 MB of RAM. I remember we had an HP pen plotter which took up to 4 hours to plot an 11 x 17 sheet. I still like AutoCad the best for solid modeling and it’s my favorite all-around cad program for 2d and 3d work, except for working with surfaces. For hull design you should give the demos a try for at least all of the top rated software packages at http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=82 and really you should give every one of them a try. I can't answer your question which is the best because I'm a firm believer that different people work differently and one person will like one software package best and another person will like another. As far as what’s best for a shipyard, I really can’t speak to that, but generally the programs like DefCar and FastShip are geared towards that, with programs like AutoShip, MaxSurf, and Multisurf in between with add-on modules for structural, etc. and programs like ProSurf, Prolines, and Hullform geared towards smaller designs or to be used to generate the hull form in conjunction with other software to design the rest. Anyway, give all the demos at http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=82 a try and see what you think. And maybe others will also jump in and give you their opinions, especially as far as larger construction is concerend.
     
  3. Birol Ernalbant
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2
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    Location: Turkey

    Birol Ernalbant New Member

    Hi Jeff,

    Thank you for your reply and I did check them all and found out that nearly all of them have his own specialty. I tried to absorb all the info and now it is in my brain (sponge by now) and I got headache.

    Could we separate the programs into groups?

    One program that you use like a drafting board (2D) like AutoCAD LT.

    Then a more technical program where you could make some boxes and shapes in (3D)Like Autocad 2000 or 2002 ( I made an Electric Iron and propellers in 3D) that was time consuming.

    Now we need a program that is specifically designed for ships/yachts. I want to put in my parameters first LOA BOA Planing hull or displacement or Semi displacement or Catamaran or maybe Trimaran . block cof. angle of dead rise angle of transom or angle of bow stern etc. Then my very expensive computer should do in a short time (that means faster then my hand/pencil & abacus:) ) . You name the program and then I should edit it or transfer it to somewhere else like AutoCAD again. Prefer to do not all in one is nice.

    In the mean time the programs are so cleaver that they can give me the displacement too so that I can check this while loading my equipment list with kg and moment from the point of gravity already given by my computer. Stability can come later as I haven' t seen a designer who had installed the M/E on top of the mast

    Now once we got the hull shape we have to go for the superstructure.

    When we got the both of them (integrated) we should look for the construction. I would like to tell him my frame spacing aft, mid and forward and my estimated plate thickness out of my thumb and tell him it would be longitudinal or transversal preferred. He should give me a construction or frame min requirement but safe according Lloyds rules. Not too light not too heavy. Name the program.

    Then I will put in my bulkheads on the frames off course or he could ask me that too please put in bulkheads on which frames, thickness incremental up or down in thickness, webs web heights,

    If I would like to have manholes in it between longitudinal web spacing which profile I would like to use angle flat or HP.

    Anyhow when I think it is all possible but I do not know which one program is coming near to that. I have seen that they can do hydrostatics stability speed predictions propeller choice power estimations.

    Then in between before you go all in this details you have to sell your design or concept S you have to make a quick model which looks like (who will see that the boat is 8.20 mt wide instead of 7.90) just a quick render to paint the eyes of the costumer or the bring over your idea to the people so that the can start to think with you on the same frequency. Like Rhino or Intergraph or Catia.

    So when I think while I am writing then we need min 1 max 3 programs to design a boat.

    Surface flattening & Nesting not counted yet as this is more for the production stage and CNC cutting machines.

    Now I ask you all Wiseman (people who are seriously involved and experienced over years).

    Give me your opinion to let me choose or direct me.

    I do not care for advertisement problems or what we are now friend’s buddies or colleagues how you can call it this is a closed ring.

    I really want to set up something new in the office but I am afraid to make a wrong choice. It would be the nest to have then all in an exhibition or so and the run them off one by one and say "show me how". Are there some exhibitions for this kind of software?

    Waiting for your opinion and thanks again Jeff.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    i will give you my prefered "suites" for design

    1-Surfaceworks, lines fairing and preliminary hydrostatics
    2-flatten (surfaceworks companion, plate development)
    3-AutocadLT, or 2002i
    4-rhino3d
    5-solidworks, (Maybe any low cost mcad)
    6-MARITECH Corporation stability software
    7-resistance and powering from wolfson unit
    8-Michlet
    9-cadre analytic (basic structural design)

    this is only one of the many "suites" you can start with, other will be:

    1-prosurf
    2-nautilus stability software and damage stability
    3-AutocadLT, or 2002i
    4-rhino3d
    5-solidworks, (Maybe any low cost mcad)
    7-resistance and powering from wolfson unit
    8-Michlet
    9-cadre analytic (basic structural design)

    and i use
    1-prosurf
    2-phaser
    3-quickcad
    4-rhino3d
    5-starting with mcad(i havent decide what mcad to buy)
    6- and a lot of excel spreadsheets

    i create the shape in prosurf, develop the plates in prosurf and preliminary hydrostatic calculation. i found prosurf really easy to work with, and give me really good results.

    export to rhino and do any details on the hull surface that i want to add and then get shapes, cut outs sections etc in rhino, and use phaser for keep a track of my hydrostatics.
    rhino its a great software.

    i only use quickcad to do final drawings the rest i use rhino

    so there is a lot of software out there and i choose this software becouse i dont need powerfull software with a lot of commands i prefer something simple and capable.

    if i have enough work i will invest inmediatly in shipcam...one of the best...but...price it's not rigth for me right now.

    so think on your needs, how are you starting and build something based on what you feel to need.

    so good luck i hope i helped, and for all out there it's only my point of view theres many more software that you can try.

    good luck
     
  5. burakreis
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 23
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    Location: Istanbul

    burakreis Junior Member

    well, for the first leave the autocad back...

    so, for a yacht designer there are some software with good price/performance ratios. you can choose betwen prosurf, prolines or rhino. rhino is really perfect in general but it is not parametric so for hull form desing it can be tricky but excelent tool for the rest. prosurf is very good for hull design and also has some modules for stability, powering etc. I dont have much idea about prolines

    for shipyards there are also rich alternatives; mid range ones:
    maxsurf, autoship, defcar... they are all nearly equal and very good stuff with modules for stability, powering, structural design, piping etc..
    there are also high and ones; catia and pro/e ship building solutions, tribon, napa, nupas/cadmatic, foran...
    if you are specially interseted in warship & submarine design my advice is GRC (old goddess) - be sure that these high-end ones very expensive...

    but the list is not ok, it's better to check these links

    http://www.bodrum-bodrum.com/vorteks/arsenal/highend.htm

    http://www.bodrum-bodrum.com/vorteks/arsenal/geomodelsoft1.htm

    kolay gelsin :)
     

  6. Timm
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 107
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 64
    Location: Crystal River, FL USA

    Timm Senior Member

    I am one of the odballs out there who can't stand to even be in the same room as a computer running AuotCad. Every time I have tried this program I gave up in frustration as it seems so convoluted and difficult. I use http://www.ashlar-vellum.com/
    programs and find these to be the most intuitive and easy to use. They have various versions from drafting to solids. They also are one of the few companies porting to the Mac platform. I draw everything in Vellum, including lines drawings. The lines start out in Fastship and are then given the final fairing and dimensioning in Vellum. Don't ask why we fair in the CAD program, it is a peculiarity of our office and it's staff.

    I have found Fastship to be difficult to use as well as expensive. Then again, if you are in a shipyard and used to AutoCad, it may be right for you.
     
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