Where to start?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kroberts, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Lord method of strip planking is briefly covered in Dave Geer's book "The Elements of Boat Strength". For further information find Lindsay Lord's books, which are likely out of print, but used book sellers may be able to find some.

    No, strip planking comes in several configurations and they aren't directly interchangeable. Examples would be the Lord method relies heavily on the high modulus of elasticity in certain fabric sheathings and their orientation on the strip planked core. Conversely, traditional strip planking uses no sheathing at all, depending on longitudinal stiffness of the strips and properly placed athwart elements for strength. I can think of about a dozen different strip plank methods.

    In short, if a hull is "spec'd" out with one method, you're best advised to use this method or at least re-engineer the structure for a different one.

    I don't have a web site. It's one of those things I keep telling myself to do, but haven't gotten around to it yet. The Lord/PAR method is an adaptation of the Lord method with my alterations for newer materials and fabrics, plus some newer techniques. Everyone keeps telling me a book is order too, but I haven't gotten around to this either.
     
  2. kroberts
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    kroberts Senior Member

    PAR,

    You made me laugh out loud. I swear I could actually hear your tone of voice coming through the monitor, on that last paragraph.

    So, do you have a plan set which might satisfy my needs, which uses your technique? Is your technique a direct replacement for the Lord technique, or is it too far a stretch?

    I will get that book nonetheless since this seems to be the closest I will get to a true sandwich core build, and that book is where I learn about it.

    Regarding the web site, you might consider starting a blog instead. It is much like posting to these forums, and you can post images and whatever too. Then you reference your blog articles instead of typing the same thing over and over again.

    Thanks again, you are continually a great help.
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Most any strip plank build can be "converted" to one of the other methods. Some just require a little hull shell scantlings adjustment and can use "general guides" to accomplish this. Others require a full up look at the structure and load path relationships, particularly the cored structures.

    Yes, with adjustments, my method can be used as a direct replacement for a traditional Lord build. Mine produces a slightly lighter, slightly stiffer product.

    About the blog. I would imagine it's much like the pile of red bricks that have been sitting next to the driveway for the last six years. I moved them there from the other side of the yard to get them out of the way. Of course I have the other half (the one that must be obeyed) convinced it will be a lovely knee wall around the garden some day. I haven't gotten around to that either.

    I have several design that may be suitable for you. Contact me through email (click on my name) and we can go over the possibilities.
     
  4. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    larch, any good strong light pine or fir, western red cedar (beware the fine dust in your lungs, asthma sufferers should ask their doctors for a list of dangerous woods),woods for years in boats have been graded on strength, longevity, availability/cost, looks, the modern idea of encapsulating wood in epoxy is o.k if it stays encapsulated, so each time you bore a hole, to sustain this idea you need to take your time to seal each hole with epoxy, bear this in mind when your estimating your hours, dont rush, work methodically, wear masks, goggles, ear defenders, safe footwear & loose clothes, use ventilators, concentrate only on the work & it wont take you long to build a boat, ignore the guy who comes by to waste your time
     
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  5. kroberts
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    kroberts Senior Member

    PAR,

    None of the books mentioned above are in stock at any of my favorite local bookstore haunts. I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised. There are a couple more I want to check out before I order on-line. Some of these places are pretty good for that, but you have to thumb through the racks like with any used book store.

    Peter,

    That's not exactly what I was asking about, but you bring up a good point. Obviously some wood varieties are going to be better than others. My father was a custom cabinet maker, and he was very disappointed at my inability to accurately recognize anything but oak and black walnut. I'm definitely going to need some advice on that.

    Does a boat design require certain types of wood, or is that more of a builder's choice?
     
  6. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    If you look up your excellent countrymen's books Howard Chappelle, Nevin's,Herreshoff, Pardey's , Skene's, these books & others in england are the bedrock foundation of boatbuilders in our language, from these you can move to others which specialise in the type of craft you want to build Wooden Boat mag of course is crammed with specialists
     
  7. kroberts
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    kroberts Senior Member

    As of about 20 minutes ago, I finally got my grubby little mitts on one of the recommended books.

    The Nature of Boats (Gerr) is in my possession.
    Elements bof Boat Strength (Gerr) is on order.
    Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction (G, G and G) is out of print, still looking.
    Boatbuilder's Notebook has no ISBN, so I imagine I have to go to Glen L to get it.

    I will look into some of these others at another time. I have enough to keep me out of your hair for a little while.
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    ebay...second hand, just books, not girls. The letters look the same no matter how many have read them.
    Richard
     
  9. kroberts
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    kroberts Senior Member

    Richard,

    You are obsessed.

    Seriously though, I have and will buy used books. The thing is though that my income is protected by copyright law. When researching a thing, I prefer to get the new one if it is available, and then will look for used.

    Or, if I have already bought the book and either lost it or damaged it, I will no longer be so fussy as to require new.

    All things within moderation, I think. :)

    There is a sort of process I use, call me obsessive-compulsive or something. Not that bad, but I like to make sure the author gets his due if it can be reasonably done.
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    jahh, but thats X-rated, so I keep it for myself. But the Gougeon book is easily to find that way, that was my hint good for.
    And I agree with your copyright statements, I have to make my shabby living mainly as a developer and have some bad experience with circumnavigating, or stealing ideas.

    and this is you???..................attachment

    Keep us updated
    Richard
     

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  11. kroberts
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    kroberts Senior Member

    Yes, it is. Hamming it up badly for some reason, I probably just let loose with a pun of profound proportions.

    It's a weakness.
     
  12. kroberts
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    kroberts Senior Member

    Got my second book today. Elements of Boat Strength by Dave Gerr.

    This one looks intensely interesting.
     
  13. kroberts
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    kroberts Senior Member

    Just a status report, for those of you who pointed me in the right direction.

    I'm doing a lot of reading when I get time. (which means not that much reading after all) :)

    I now know what Lindsay Lord's method is, and have done enough background reading of the references that I feel I have a beginner's idea of what makes it so different. I did a "point and shoot" pass through the Elements of Boat Strength, enough to understand the Lord method and the background behind it, and a few of the other things. I am now going through a more thorough pass, although I think this book is for much larger vessels than I am interested in.

    Still not really ready to ask more questions yet of the forum, other than if somebody has a good sailboat-specific book focusing on <30 foot boats. Gerr's books, the small boats seem to be on the lower extreme and it is as though he doesn't really consider them to be worth his attention.
     
  14. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    It's not that he doesn't consider them, it's just that at each end of the scale, the rules change significantly enough where they just don't apply any more. In most cases in small boats, you get to a point of diminishing returns in terms of light weight scantlings. You can't make the pieces smaller or thinner without expecting catastrophic failure under load, so these boats have heavier (proportionally) scantlings then a similarly shaped and used boat of larger general dimensions. The same is true in reverse at the other end of the scale, where the pieces are so big that they can buckle under their own weight.
     

  15. kroberts
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    kroberts Senior Member

    Is this why you said that scaling a set of plans is a bad thing?
     
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