Where to build?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by adt2, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    Truck and trailer can park on the main road. Use a crane to move boat to the truck for moving. Cranes are easy to move around and he may have to position himself in two locations. You are going to need a crane anyway so just get a larger one. The only way to go. Cranes rent by the hour with a minimum time charge. Call a couple, give them the estimated weight and length to get a ball park figure. They will probably want to come out for no charge to look around.
     
  2. adt2
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    adt2 Senior Member

    Nope...just a heavily wooded area north of Houston. Closest put-in is probably the Houston ship channel. I've no idea whether there's a yard with a travel-lift in the channel, but I would guess there is. This part of my plan is not fully baked yet, though. I'm kind of sort of tentatively considering maybe building the keel/hull/interior/deck, leaving a hole where the house goes, and then moving it to water somewhere not too far away, where I could finish the wheelhouse and get her outfitted.

    Again - plan nowhere near being fully baked yet. Oven still preheating.
     
  3. adt2
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    adt2 Senior Member

    Ah, that's in the ballpark of what I was hoping to hear. Crane rental won't cost nearly as much as a) removing trees, b) pouring new driveway, c) renting space for years while I build, or d) buying unzoned land to build on. There are several places where the crane could park while maneuvering, and plenty of places to set the boat while the crane is being moved. Hardest part would be a stretch of about 100' of heavily wooded area on either side of driveway, but even if I had to clear some of that to make a hole, that would be okay.
     
  4. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    Factory premade cat hulls

    I've watched this with interest as I may do the same with a cat. Offshore Catamarans in Florida will sell you a pair of premade 48' hulls for $80,000. They also have daggerboards, beams, bulkheads, rudders, wingmast and more. And they have the plans and advice and you can order all the parts from them for 15% over cost. They've done this many times before. It may cost you more than a handbuilt but the project will go much quicker and is likely to be a more professional looking product in the end. You will end up with more liveable space and it will be faster. Yes, you will still have the transportation issue and the money you spent on plans will be wasted but golldarnit I know it will save you a lot of time. Regardless please keep us posted. I'm rooting for you. BTW how much time do you think it will take you? I figure the Offshore option will take me about 6 months working nonstop with a helper or 2 in Florida. I'm a professional builder and have extensive experience in high end finishing as well as plumbing and electrical and all the tools so I'm not intimidated. I am not affiliated with Offshore. BOB http://www.offshorecats.com
     
  5. adt2
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    adt2 Senior Member

    Really couldn't disagree more with most of what you said. For 80 grand, I could buy a beater and restore it in a few months. I'm twenty years from retirement, a former custom home builder, and a hobbyist woodworker with a 2,400sf workshop full of tools. I doubt that what I eventually produce will be less professional looking than what you buy off-the-shelf at cost+15%.

    Faster is not one of my concerns. I'm happy to see the world at 8 or 9 knots. Liveable space is subjective; two shorter, narrow hulls with less headroom don't equal more space than a 57-footer with 7'+ headroom throughout, to me.

    But to each his own. I anticipate spending years on the project; I'm in no rush, and I can't afford to live on the thing yet anyway. Got two kids to put through college and I'm sure life will get in the way as time goes on. But I've always wanted a big wooden boat, and I've managed to build my own house and my own workshop over the last few years, and I suspect I'll be able to finish this project, too, given enough time.
     
  6. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    I agree with ADT and disagree with Sand Crab. Those $80K hulls are awful deals. You get $30K worth of materials assembled into hulls for $80K. You still have to build the rest of the boat (the time consuming part) and they're FOB in FL. Bad deal all around.

    To the topic:

    Rasorinc has it right. That's all you need to do. A crane is your answer. You can crane it over any of the ditches by picking, swinging, putting down, moving the crane and swinging it again.

    You can crane it right onto a waiting truck to take you wherever you need to go.

    Your boat isn't that big (it is, but it isn't for trucking it). 17' beam will be a real help. Mine is a 25' beam so I had no choice but to build at the launch site.
     
  7. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    Well gee whiz

    1. I don't want to turn this into one of those cat vs mono threads but i just had to correct this one point. As a rule of thumb a cat has roughly 50% more interior and deck space than an equivalent length monohull so the 48' cat would be bigger than a 57' mono. These hulls are slender (faster) than most so you would reduce that percentage gain by a little.
    2. I figured that 15% over cost that Offshore charges would apply to all the items we can't build like winches, hatches and engines and not the items we would build ourselves.
    3. All the data says the hull or hulls are the most difficult and time consuming to build so having it (them) built does have it's advantages. My time frame would be a lot shorter than adt's and I would be willing to pay a premium for that. Less exposure to fumes would be a plus. So, maybe $80,000 is too much for hulls and maybe it isn't. There is no other 48' hull manufacturer to compare this to. The hulls are epoxy/divinycell so they are definately worth more than basic economy grade. Would you build these hulls for the $50,000 over the cost of materials? Out of a female mold?
    4. Catbuilder, while I agree on your crane comments there is still that overhead line issue as well as overpasses in getting the boat down to the water. ADT, did you figure out your total transportation height? I've seen some pretty big boats on the highway and yours seem to be close to the limit. I would have the same issue so if I do it I would just bite the bullet and be as close to the water in Florida as possible and it ain't cheap.
    Look, I mainly know multis and there are good plans out there by Schionning and Wharram which is a traditional wood cat. And others. Just my 2 cents worth. But, ADT and I agree on the big picture which is to go sailing. I don't care if it's mono or multi. Neither one of us is right or wrong. I mostly lake sail on my friends Catalina 25 but in Montana you take what you can get. I still wish you luck and keep us posted. If I do the Offshore thing or just buy one I'll do the same. Maybe we'll have that Boatdrink. I'm buying. BOB
     
  8. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    How about 48' cat compared with a slender 72' mono. That would be more fair wouldn't it? Or maybe we should talk only about the LWL or SA. My point being here that you can't make such simple comparisons ..
     
  9. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    How about 48' cat compared with a slender 72' mono. That would be more fair wouldn't it? Or maybe we should talk only about the LWL or SA. My point being here that you can't make such simple comparisons ..[/QUOTE]

    Teddy. I'm not sure your point. Is it that a 48' cat is equal to a 72' slender mono in deck and interior space? While SA/D, LWL, hull fineness, Bruce # and all the rest are entirely relevant and really subject to intense scrutiny in a serious discussion the liveable area on a standard cruising cat versus a mono of equal length is not open to debate. The cat is just simply much larger.
    Yes,yes,yes we can debate cat vs mono all day long but that is not my point. My point is lets just go sailing. I sail with my buddy on his little 25' mono on the large lakes here and love it. Try 35 knots of wind in a 25 footer. wwoowee Take care BOB
     
  10. SeaJay
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    SeaJay Senior Member

    adt2 - I'm just reading this thread today, but want to add to what has already been said. First, with 5 acres and a full shop next to your house you could build a new road all the way to the gulf and still come out ahead in the long run. Get a couple of crane operators / haulers out to look over your situation and they'll figure it out. Transport will be a relativley minor cost in the big scheme of things.

    I've got my own transport issues (the pilot house might be a couple of inches higher than the barn door when finished...my landlord says "that's what chain saws are for (the barn not the boat)... great guy.) But one thing I've come to understand that over-height is more of an issue than over-width. Worse case width issues just require more pilot cars and time/route restrictions. Over height (which I am) can require power line movement...I don't want to go there. My solution is to build and move the the hull and keel independently. Problem solved.

    I would just add for the benefit of other potential boat builders that your building location is a critical component that needs to be resolved very early in your project. If I had been thinking about my project just a few years earlier, I could have easily purchased a home with an adjacent building site. However I didn't, and had a heck of a time locating a good, but not perfect, site. This was much more of an issue that I had experienced 30 years ago for an earlier build. All of the old beat up wharehouse space "down by the docks" is history...nothing but high end condos and offices. If you are seriously contemplating a build, nail down the site (preferably next to your home) as the earliest possible time.

    Best Regards,

    SeaJay
     
  11. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    Wasting time

    Seajay, While I wish adt all the luck in the world asking crane operators or boat haulers to look the job over is a waste of their time. Adt is "years away" and as I understand it he doesn't even have working plans yet. Reminds me of the time the guy was trying to get a quote from me on building a restraunt. He didn't have plans or even the location figured out. We tradesman want to look at jobs that are going to be ready in weeks or months but not years. He's already said that no one will give the boat moving project a lookover. Asking for free advice in this forum is fine but doing the same to a working man is basically spinning their wheels. But, I think if he volunteers to pay them for their time I'm sure he can get feasability studies and/or estimates but these will be pretty useless because of his long build team. Still I wish adt good luck and fair winds but he has to understand that if he's going to undertake this major project he is going to have to start opening his wallet. Bob
     
  12. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It is not a waste of time at all. Planning how to move the built boat or if it is even possible is the first step. Anyone not doing that is an idiot. He does not need to get a firm price, but an estimate and a plan on how to transport it. I look at jobs far in the future, and some eventually come through. My business is for the long haul so it eventually pays.
     
  13. adt2
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    adt2 Senior Member

    Got no problem opening my wallet, but I have to say, as a custom home builder, while I wouldn't write up a detailed estimate or do a take-off for free, I certainly wouldn't have hesitated to visit the customer's proposed job site to have a look-see and start giving advice. Customers want to feel like they're appreciated and like their potential business means something - not just like a checkbook.

    If even one of the haulers/crane guys I've talked to had said, "You know, I'd be happy to come have a look, but it might take me a few days or a week," I would've a) been happy as a clam, and b) kept the guy's name and number and given him the business when I was ready. Even if they'd said, "I'll come take a look for $100," I would've happily written a check just for the peace of mind of having someone lay eyes on it.

    Unfortunately, though, the crappy economy seems to have made people lazy and less likely to go after a potential customer, instead of prompting businesses to go out on a limb and take a chance on a long-term relationship.
     
  14. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member


    It seems that's just crane guys.

    I dealt with half a dozen a while back and none of them returned calls, followed up, or in any way completed the sale.

    Every single one dropped the ball, so I got a pair of engine hoists and dollies to move my catamaran around. :cool:
     

  15. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    my apologies adt

    Sorry if I offended. Next time you call these guys ask them what they would charge you to look at your project. Explain your circumstances and time frame and volunteer to pay them for their time and I guarantee you will have proposals. If I had a nickel for every time i did that then I would be sailing now. Gonzo I agree with the long term business relationships part but this is just a one time deal for adt so it really doesn't apply. You are in the boat business and do it way more than the rest of us. Adt once again I apologize and good luck.
     
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