When will new ideas be adopted?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Windmaster, Jul 24, 2022.

  1. rnlock
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 242
    Likes: 66, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Massachusetts

    rnlock Senior Member

    I don't see any reason why it couldn't be achieved in a full sized boat, but it's slow for its size, even if it points high. Obviously it's hard to judge the wind, but I get the impression this catamaran isn't any faster than a Marblehead, which is probably about the same length, or even a US 1 Meter. It would be faster with 3 or 4 times the sail area. And even faster with a 2 or 3 element foil wing. I imagine a rigid, airfoil shaped wing makes tacking a lot easier.

    The idea of the center of pressure moving is problematic, because some foils still have a pitching moment when the lift is zero. That puts the center of pressure somewhere out past Alpha Centauri. (i.e. it's a divide by zero problem) . I have the impression that the pitching moment problem can be addressed, to some extent, by putting the vane just above and slightly behind the top of the wing. Look up outboard horizontal stabilizers for airplanes. One caveat: unstalled, the pivot axis, analagous to an airplane's cg, could be put much further back. The moment there's a stall, however, that pivot point had better be ahead of the equivalent of 1/4MAC. A guy who piloted a UAV with an OHS setup told me the stalls were awful.
     
  2. Windmaster
    Joined: Nov 2006
    Posts: 296
    Likes: 25, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 56
    Location: Norwich UK

    Windmaster Senior Member

    Interesting comments to which I mostly agree - but the purpose of the test of the model catamaran
    was not to achieve speed but to test the automatic tail controlled sheeting system which was fitted. You can see from the video that tiny movements were being made when
    the boat was directly facing the wind - would these adjustments have been possible from a radio controlled mainsheet? - I don't think so - the operator would be far
    away with no chance of judging what control inputs were needed. So it definitely proved that the automatic control was superior. From these observations Peter Worsley
    was able to develop an automatic wingsail mechanism for fullsize boats which was patented in the UK www.windthrusters.com/story.html
     
  3. rnlock
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 242
    Likes: 66, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Massachusetts

    rnlock Senior Member

    Having sailed RC sailboats a bit, I'm sure you're right that such a mechanism provides better sail trimming. In the sailing I've done, obstacles on the shoreline mean that the wind changes all the time. Even worse than it does when dinghy sailing on the Charles River between Boston and Cambridge, where I think all the large buildings nearby stir things up.

    A thought I've had is to take the potentiometer out of the servo and mount it on top of the mast, with a small vane attached to the shaft. That might accomplish much the same thing without as much additional weight and drag high up on the boat.
     
  4. rnlock
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 242
    Likes: 66, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Massachusetts

    rnlock Senior Member

    BTW, if a servo is adjusting that vane, it can adjust a flap at the same time.
     
  5. Windmaster
    Joined: Nov 2006
    Posts: 296
    Likes: 25, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 56
    Location: Norwich UK

    Windmaster Senior Member

    Yes, the same thing can be done electrically. But then you have to have a power supply etc. Adjusting a wing is more critical than a sail so
    some form of automatic control is the best. Those places you mention are all in the UK too! Ours were the originals!
     
  6. rnlock
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 242
    Likes: 66, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Massachusetts

    rnlock Senior Member

    I was aware of that, but your Boston and Cambridge are considerably further apart. I've rowed from one to the other in a boat in just a few minutes, which is more fun than walking over various bridges. Google Maps is being petulant and refuses to show me your Charles River. I wish I lived in a more civilized country, but I'm cautiously optimistic about a return to partial sanity.

    An RC boat already has that stuff on board. So do rich people's yachts. Maybe not the rest of us...
     

  7. Windmaster
    Joined: Nov 2006
    Posts: 296
    Likes: 25, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 56
    Location: Norwich UK

    Windmaster Senior Member

    You're right - there isn't any Charles River round here! civilized countries are rare everywhere nowadays.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.