Wheelhouse windows

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Johns1152, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    I have seen boats with bolts welded but not ever actually seen a shutter except deadlights on portlights, which are on the inside. I'm ignorant here. How would you see? Or are you talking of Lexan?
    A boat Teddy was talking about. Those windows are not going anywhere:
    Mark 066.jpg
    That's the oldest working tug on the West coast BTW. 1907 and still going strong (I think he may have just retired).
     
  2. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    Storm shutters, roller shutter, deadlights, portable storm covers are mandatory for crafts operating outside of protected waters. There is loosening of rule if the wheelhouse is located on the second tier or above the main deck level.
     
  3. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    The storm shutters I remember had little holes in them that I always assumed were so you could see out if them. Almost exclusively I remember seeing them on some fishing boats my grandfather used to work on. I was really young at the time but if there was a pile of plywood tied to the front of the pilot house I could bet I was going to end up scraping and painting it as part of my weekend chores.

    ps
    nice tugboat Mark
     
  4. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Thanks! I tried to search photos like that but didn't find.
     
  5. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    I took that pic myself. Another of my dreams unfulfilled (I couldn't afford it or my wife said no - I don't remember!). I'd bet not much built today will still be earning a living in 100 years, either!
    RX is ringing a bell with me but I don't believe I have ever seen a workboat with anything other than small round portlights at deck level (other than little boats like mine). I don't remember where I saw the bolts protruding on the perimeter of a window - just cursing them as I snagged flesh...
     
  6. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yes , I have storm covers stored under bunks. They are simply aluminium plates with sponge rubber seals around the perimeter that bolt on to cover a wheelhouse window when one breaks...not to navigate with. The portlights have plywood covers..
     
  7. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    They are rules for International Class. Local class may not be so strict but consider these wave heights for service groups (area of operations)

    Service group/ Minimum Significant wave height in meteres
    1 -- 0.6
    2 -- 1.0
    3 -- 2.0
    4 -- 4.0
    5 -- 4.0
    6 -- 4.0

    These are statistically derived wave heights. On some areas, the probability of higher waves are more common.

    Portlights can have built in deadlights but mostly, portlights are on the sides of the structure. It is the front windows that needs to be protected first and in G2 category, only 50% needs to be protected.

    Portable storm windows can be marine plywood with the window frame designed to hold firmly the plywood during storms. The plywood is normally stored out of the way and retrieved only when needed. ( i think I saw this in the movie "Perfect Storm".)

    Storm shutters are a little more expensive. Some are roll up which becomes very heavy. I have seen roll up but only on exit doors in steel ships.
     
  8. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    Here is the G service rating from LR

    G1 Service Group 1 covers craft intended for service in
    sheltered waters adjacent to sandbanks, estuaries,
    reefs, breakwaters or other coastal features and in
    similarly sheltered waters between islands in reasonable
    weather where the range to refuge is, in general,
    five nautical miles or less. The geographical limits of
    the intended service are to be identified by the Builder
    and agreed with LR. Craft in this group are not eligible
    for the assignment of the character figure 100.
    G2 Service Group 2 covers craft intended for service in
    reasonable weather, in waters where the range to
    refuge is 20 nautical miles or less. This group will
    usually cover craft intended for service in coastal
    waters, for which geographical limits are to be
    identified by the Builder and agreed with LR.
    G3 Service Group 3 covers craft intended for service in
    waters where the range to refuge is 150 nautical miles
    or less. The geographical limits of the intended service
    are to be reported to LR.
    G4 Service Group 4 covers craft intended for service in
    waters where the range to refuge is 250 nautical miles
    or less. The geographical limits of the intended service
    are to be reported to LR.
    G5 Service Group 5 covers craft intended for service in
    waters where the range to refuge is 350 nautical miles
    or less. The geographical limits of the intended service
    are to be reported to LR.
    G6 Service Group 6 covers yachts and steel patrol craft
    having unrestricted service.

    RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE CLASSIFICATION OF SPECIAL SERVICE CRAFT, July 2010
     
  9. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Lots a good info, should make a sane man think before installing forward raked windows in a small craft and travelling out into the big blue. I am not convinced it's safe at this point because there seems to be no specified research or specs on this design. What seems to be occuring is the ostrich head in the sand engineering where the same specs of straight or aft sloped is being used as the engineering specs for forward sloped. Because of the challenges of safety with this style one would think it would have been given the attention of study and engineering it requires.Everyone seems to agree it requires a heavier frame and glass but to what spec? Overbuild like hell, use forward structures to reduce impact and hope for the best. The rounded style definately is a safer style, those old boys knew their stuff and should not be underestimated and i might add looks very seaworthy nautical. Shutters are good but no good if you wait too long before installing them becuase if you get into the thick of it they are one hell of risk to suicidial to install, especially if 75% of the crew is down and out with fear or seasickness.
    So thus far here's what i've gathered, "For offshoe work"
    #1 Regardless of style keep forward facing glass area as small and as thick as possible(practical)
    #2 If at all possible avoid the forward sloped window, there are other choices but if there is no alternative build her super strong with forward deflecting structures and shutter, better sooner than later.(I still don't like them)
    #3 Straight widows while less suseptiable than forward sloped to damage, should be built in circular form, build over spec. and again if at all practical, incorporate forward deflecting structures. Again keep the shutters handy.
    #4 The aft sloped window is the most seaworthy and if built properly is practically bombproof.
    #5 Lexan(polycarbonite) is not a bad alternative to glass.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner (and should not have forward sloping windows.) God Bless Me Aman,(smiley face)------ Geo.
     
  10. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    A couple of examples, one of my conversions,a standard 26ft. ships life boat to motorsailer, more photos on "Reverse Engineering thread and on "Boatbuilding projects Underway" note the small area using 1/2in. lexan.(polycarbonate)
    A traditional old style wooden Barkhouse Motorsailer, straight windows in circular form. She fell over on her jacks, i bought her for salvage, removed about about $20,000 in fittings and accessories(loaded in modern electronics including radar)also (a brand new 3cyl. yanmar diesel,) sold the hull for 2/3 of my $6000 purchase price. Put me 3 yrs. ahead financially on my new build. If ya an't rich ya gotta be lucky.
    P.S. Note, the excellent design of the Barkhouse in that if the wheelhouse becomes comprimised the vessel is still safe and functional by a weather tight barrier still in place at the entrance to the main cabin,I.E. raised companion way step, doors and sliding hatch.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner.
     

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  11. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    Just another tidbit. "Lexan" is a brand name and it is polycarbonate.

    "Plexiglass" is another name for acrylic plastic.
     
  12. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Somewhere in the far reaches of my aging and shrunken memory there should have been grey cells that relayed that info to me but honestly it didn't click even when both were mentioned in a prev. post. Just like in this section of the world all circular saws are called skill saws or snowmobiles Skidoos, It's the programming of the masses.( have upgraded my post to reflect this) Tnx. Geo.
     
  13. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Lexan is a good choice on a small craft...glass is just to heavy and very challenging to use when not in flat panels. . I sailed the pictured yacht with Lexan for many years. Obviously no windscreen wipers could be used.

    The Lexan windows were robust but were a maintenance issue. UV damage , yellowing and physical scratching after a few years. Easy to replace so new widows were installed with each superstructure paint cycle .
     

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  14. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Michael, looks like it also has a little curvature, but ooh my!(let me be brave this time Mark775, Reverse Transome's,) no i didn't sat that it will throw this thread off course, I'll start another thread on that if it has not been discussed before. I like lexan(polycarbonite) for strength and ease of install. If it's good enought for the Russian fishing boats in the Bering it's good enought for me although they must use glass or a clearview spinner on lexan for the windshields.
    Note, i have added a P.S. on my prev. post R.E. an excellent safety feature on the wheelhouse to main cabin design of the Barkhouse motorsailer thats also incorporated in my new build. Michael this is in line with an idea you posted here in a former post, that the vessel not be comprimised by a damaged wheelhouse. In my new build i have also duplicated my comm. and nav. gear wheelhouse to main cabin and the main cabin will have quick disconnect sub. panels that i can isolate electrical and comm feeds to a damaged wheelhouse. --Geo. Quote, " Any boat should be esigned to weather that one hard , unexpected squall that may knock her down, swamp her, sink her,resulting in serious injury or loss of life" Francis S. Kinney.

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner.
     

  15. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Be careful that youre not over analyzing the issue. Ive sailed many thousands of miles at sea in small craft with wheelhouse windows and have never been concerned with window damage.

    You re talking about small craft. It doesn't matter if perpendicular or sloping wheelhouse windows . Your choice. . Critical on a small craft to concentrate on keeping weight low with correctly speced lexan windows in robust frames, then detail the wheelhouse so that the vessel is seaworthy even if the whole wheelhouse is swept onto Sable Bank.

    This means a Well conceived companionway hatch and jumbo "sewer pipe" wheelhouse drainage. This wheelhouse is drained by 4 times 90mm with 4 independent discharge plumbing runs and it has an 800mm tall watertight heavy weather washboard blocking the companionway.
    Remember that only a Newfy, anxiuos for fresh a seal flipper dinner and a drop of Screech, would put his bow into heavy breaking seas. Typical youre run off in a small craft. Pay particular attention to aft and beam facing wheelhouse structure. That's the zone the big wave is going to choose for a rest.

    The typical window repair I do is leaking caused by dis bonding of the window from its frame.....UV damage . Guard the Caulking from the sun as done in an automobile windscreen

    A nice way to do a small craft three pane front wheelhouse windscreen is two Lexan panels and a center glass panel with windscreen wiper. Its not neccassary on a small craft to have a full forward swept windscreen.

    Clearview spinners are a pain in the *** on small boats.
     
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