wheat flour epoxy additive

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Collin, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    OK Mr F - I am going to have to start at the beginning for you. If the biggest iceberg ever recorded will only take 60 years to melt, that means there will never be an iceberg that lasts 10,000 years in the water.

    That 10,000 years you quoted is the age of the ice, from the time it fell as little snowflakes, to the time it sank into the salty depths, and all those years in the glacier on the way to the ocean - not even a re-inforced, man made structure of ice will last 10,000 years.

    Is that clear to you ? or are we in for an alcohol inspired run of silly little quips that lead nowhere again ?
     
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Sure ---we can go the alcahol inspired run of silly quips that lead nowhere, if thats what you prefer and are most familiar and comfortable with.

    I see you've started without me.
     
  3. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    I did, and thats because I have actually done some reading about it.

    The "Haverhook" ( which must be Frosty spelling for "Habakkuk" ) used sawdust to inhibit melting, as well as structurally

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

    " the invention of Pykrete, a mixture of water and woodpulp which frozen together was stronger than plain ice, was slower melting, and of course would not sink."

    And it wasnt the end of the war that stopped its production

    "The final Habbakuk Board meeting took place in December 1943 and it was announced that "The large Habbakuk II made of Pykrete has been found to be impractical because of the enormous production resources required and technical difficulties (By May the problem of plastic flow had become serious and it was obvious that more steel reinforcement would be needed as well as a more effective insulating skin around the vessel's hull.) involved"."
     
  4. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Excellent - so now its clear to you. My work hear is done - the Internet has been saved from wrongness again.
     
  5. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Sea water does freeze, ive seen it--so there!
     
  6. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Ah, but I didn't say it did !

    Quote "ALL ICEBERGS are FRESH WATER !!!! You cant freeze salt."

    I didn't say "you cant freeze seawater"

    But if you drop the salt out of seawater in an iceberg, can you still call it "frozen seawater" ??
     
  7. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I see you've started without me again,---hic--- it will take me a few to catch up with you.
     
  8. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Herman Senior Member

    To get this back to biological fillers for epoxy:

    One of my customers had a nice story:

    "I was working on a CNC mill in Switserland, and the company placed me in an ancient hotel (17th century) for the nights. I was there with a colleague, and we had a great time. The only annoying thing was the cracking of the stairs, which were situated next to my room. After 2 nights I decided it was time to deal with the stairs for good. It was some 2AM probable, when together with my colleague we brought in some epoxy resin that we had in the car. We did not have any filler material. I sneaked into the kitchen of the hotel, and took the corn starch. After mixing we applied a bit to the seams in the stairs, but decided the colour was way off, and people would notice. I went to the kitchen again, and found gravy powder, which nicely matched the wood colour. In about 1 hour we filled all seams.
    The next night no more cracking and squeeking noises from the stairs..."
     
  9. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Since epoxy allows ingress of water vapor, in time, wood moisture content will achieve an equalibrium with relative humidity even if you use under 12% wood moisture content during build. It is always adding more water content until then. Proper ventilation is a must for all boats and a dehumidifier wouldnt hurt during long off periods.

    Its the same reason indoor storage is chosen, it minimizes moisture absorbtion in fiberglass and results in a drier-fresh smelling boat.

    After several months, polyester reduces water absorbtion near 90% and epoxy 97% but, its real reason for preventing rot from commencing is due to lack of air needed for rot spores to develop.
     
  10. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Before I jump all over your reply for lack of experience, understanding or other nonsense Goodwill, maybe you can qualify your comments with some data.
     
  11. beernd
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    Location: Netherlands

    beernd Junior Member

    I have tried the weat flower as thickener.
    It apeears to be much cheaper than the cotton fibre I used(and will be using again for as long as I build boats)

    The two disadvantages are that :
    1) you'll never get a good pasty like stuff, no matter how much you add, your epoxy will stay runny.

    2) Since you have to use an enormous amount of the stuff, it is not cheaper.

    Conclusion wheat flower sucks, and you don't save any money.

    Do your selves a favour and only buy the right stuff for the right application
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  12. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    yea use wafarin as a filler its like rice and will kill the vermin! the wont get through much of a fillet anyway--even if they could chew it..which is dubious...epoxy is too tough...
     
  13. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    it absolutlely does--!!
     
  14. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Quick google search and didnt find comparative 1,7,28 rates but did find woodenboat thread started by Dave Carnell, who performed experiments which seem to confirm my answer. The results posted were hard to comprehend due to writing style but will go over them again in a few minutes.

    Do know that what I use has 24hr water absorbtion rate of .21%, rate will slow down over time, but could easily concieve total absorbtion approaching 2-3% over 90 days in wet humid areas such as Florida or further South.

    Just memory for polyester being in high 80's to mid 90's.
     

  15. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Very little info on epoxy water absorbtion. Dave Carnell posted info back in 2001 and said his was the only data he could find on such matters. He also had considedrable decreased weights for dried out samples.

    From his conclusions use at least 3 coats outside, 1-2 inside to prevent direct water to wood contact but allows drying out with ventilation and dehumidifying.

    Dave was also a pioneer in experimenting with green radiator fluid, had results of it enhancing epoxy/wood bond, rot treatment, and presoaking to prevent rot because it has more hydroscopisity than water and would fill the vacuum before water had a chance.
     
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