What makes the best offshore cruising yacht

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by LEADGlobal, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. BulldozerMind
    Joined: Oct 2017
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    BulldozerMind New Member

    You wanted info on Seaworthyness...

    ( :

    John Vigor ( pronounced VIGH-gor, according to his site : )
    has a book specifically on that.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007VLQO56/

    Also, if you use the graphs in the kindle-sample of the sixth edition of Heavy Weather Sailing, or whatever that is called, you will find that safest isn't universally heavy-cruiser...
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00ANITXVG/
    smaller, heavier, longer, less so...

    the Comfort number ( Brewer? ) also changes things, too...

    for small boats, you want heavy, for motion-mitigation, but with the bigger ones, you don't need it.

    From what I've read, a survival-grade concern is simply being able to manage the sails, when alone.
    Therefore, a 250-300 sq ft per sail max would be indicated, if having to manage the boat while one's partner was not helping, or if one was singlehanding...

    Multiple sources say multiple-masts is more likely to leave you able to sail after a capsize or dismasting, & John Vigor pointed out that keel-stepped masts are likely to leave you a usable stump to work from, if dismasted...

    I can't remember which yacht-design book it was that said you need 1' draft for every 7' of length, but I think they meant LWL, not LOD.

    As for a pilothouse, consider using 30% mesh paintball netting as one's dodger?

    mitigating wind & spray, "translucent" rather than "opaque" to wind, offering shelter & visibility ( less at night, obviously, but if being violently-peppered by weather is degrading your stamina, maybe worth it, as an option... )

    Caveat:
    I am autistic, have no boat, began learning about the things a few months ago, & intend to have a design of my own & built within a year, so the "angle" I am coming at this is quite different from normals.

    I want my home to be the North Atlantic, where I can be alone & just enjoy sailing & working on stuff!

    ( :

    Namaste, eh?
     
  2. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    If you are reading up on seaworthyness, also look up CA Marchaj. 'Seaworthyness the forgotten factor'.
    Seaworthiness https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/seaworthiness-9781408104088/
    Although its basically a polemic against the IOR rule and in that sense maybe outdated, the detail and explanations apply to any designs. His explanation of roll energy and damping in the mechanism of capsize is particularly interesting.
     
  3. GeorgeD1
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    Location: Toronto, ON

    GeorgeD1 New Member

    I have just read the entire thread and it was very informative as a novice. Nonetheless, it was surprise that no one mentioned things like composting toilets (improved smell and waste management), water purifiers, rain water capture, isolated showers, bow thrusters, and over sized batteries.

    In particular, batteries seems to be a key technology here. If emphasis could be place on increased battery capacity (size and quantity) and their recharging systems (solar panels, hydro generators, wind generators, gas turbines) as an inherent part of the boat then a smaller more powerful and flexible electrical propulsion systems would serve along with the other existing electrical and electronic tools and lifesavers that already exists. Specifically, a dramatic simplification might be realized by eliminating the mechanical complexity of the diesel/gasoline combustion system (engine, fuel, oils, filters, compressors, etc.). Additionally, in a clean sheet design the battery, depending on types, may function as an effective ballast freeing up traditional spaces in the hull. In addition to all the other great suggestions such as a pilot house, such a battery centric boat design would be an innovative boat.

    If you can build such a boat as a shell or bare bones versions in various sizes then the upscale finishings could be the work of a second company or an after market. I don't have my yacht yet but I am not impressed by many of the current stable of open cockpits. They seem so impractical since the weather is mostly uncooperative being too hot or too cold or such. It seems to me a sailboat is only occasionally a balcony but mostly a tube.
     
  4. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    In theory, you are probably correct but the old fashioned diesel engine with all its disadvantages (fuel cost, noise, vibration, fumes etc) is at least a known quantity. It may be a brute but it can usually be kept going even sometimes in severe conditions of humidity and motion. I'd be concerned at the reliability of an electric based propulsion system in times of need. It's hard to keep water out of the bilges in severe conditions. What physical size/weight/cost of battery bank would be needed to replace say 600ltr (160GL) of diesel fuel and what would be the realistic charging time given on-board methods?
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The reality is, electric propulsion hasn't yet come close enough to the costs and range of conventional arrangements, regardless of application. Simply put, if you need 100 HP of propulsion, you're at a lose compairtivly using electric over gas or diesel systems. Storage has come a long way in recent years, but weight and cost easily discount consideration, once matched up with similar gas and diesel setups. Some electric designs are addressing some of your thoughts, but generation and storage real estate, are much more costly, larger and heavier than more conventional means. Simply put, you might get 100 HP out of a motor, but once weights are matched, your range goes down the dumper.
     
  6. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    As late as a couple of years ago, some very experienced cruisers (about 25 years world sailing experience and work as a shipwright) threw out their electric motor and went back to diesel. They wrote some stories detailing the experience, which I think were in Classic Boat magazine. They make good reading.
     
  7. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    At the risk of igniting a storm, you can also say that the basic thrust of the book is arguably incorrect. As you say, it's a polemic against the IOR rule sparked by the 1979 Fastnet - but the boats the book recommends (ie the Contessa 32 style) actually came out statistically pretty much as well as the style of boat that the book condemns in that race. For example, if you look at the small class boats the later IOR half tonners had almost exactly the same chance of being capsized as the Contessa 32s did. The difference between the risks involved with each type may appear, with hindsight, to be vanishingly small.
     
  8. Angélique
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Here's some info about the Ecolution, which is the in 2010 launched yacht of the late Dutch astronaut Wubbo Ockels.

    Wubbo's Ecolution is now sold, but the sales info is still available* - - Here's a 2010 PDF about this boat.

    * = below's pics source + partly quoted below

    _ecolution_sailing_.png
    _ecolution_batteries_.png
    Quote
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  9. GeorgeD1
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    GeorgeD1 New Member

    Thanks. Will check it out.
     
  10. GeorgeD1
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    GeorgeD1 New Member

    Inertia :)

    The reliability and propulsion efficiency of brush-less DC or AC motors are unparalleled as far as I am aware. They can also be used as hydro generators and be sealed water tight. As for batteries, it seems to me that a piston engine's ~33% theoretical maximum energy conversion efficiency is preserved due to legacy. An electrical motor combined with a more efficient means of generating electricity from diesel would be ideal. For instance, a gas turbine engine is apparently ~60% efficient and coupled with a ~80+% efficient electric motor you have ~48+% efficiency. Of course, if we treat diesel as a battery alternative we may need a lot less of it for the same journey especially when other sources such as solar panels are factored in and in addition the diesel system may needn't be as fickle and alternative hydrocarbons sources such as, aghmm poo, might be captured and employed: https://phys.org/news/2017-05-microbial-fuel-cell-methane-electricity.html
     
  11. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    Yes, inertia. Cruisers are a diverse lot; some are wealthy enough to innovate and accept the risks that entails but most are living on savings or moderate income from investments. The last thing you need on the other side of the world is a system failure which no local technician understands and for which there is no hope of parts. If you are wealthy enough this is no problem, you just fly out an engineer with replacement parts...but for most people this would be impossible.
    Another question is the expected life of systems. As someone who often passes weeks with a screw-gun in hand, I'm aware of improvements in battery and motor technology but also painfully aware of the limited life of batteries...I have got through many screw-guns and it is always the batteries that fail, never the mechanics and when they do, the replacements are more expensive than a new gun. The engine in our boat is forty years old, it starts immediately, runs faultlessly and any mechanic can work on it.
     
  12. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    Thanks. That's really interesting, I'll read up on it.
     
  13. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    It would be an interesting storm!
    I'm away from home at the moment and won't have much of a connection or time in the next week (or access to Marchaj's books) but some informed debate on his ideas would be interesting to follow. A friend has a Golden Shamrock which is a Holland design practically the same shape as Grimalkin. The boat was a gift as it had been abandoned for years and needed a lot of work. We did the work together and I have sailed on it a fair bit in a variety of conditions though not racing or flying a spinnaker.
     
  14. GeorgeD1
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    GeorgeD1 New Member

    Better the devil you know, eh. I hear you. :)
     

  15. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    Interesting that they chose lead acid batteries? I can't find much on the web about it so maybe it wasn't an entirely successful venture?

    The first Dutchman in space has been rescued from his stricken eco-friendly yacht by Newhaven lifeboat crew.
    Lifeboat crew rescues astronaut http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-20238981
    This was a result of system failure in severe conditions.

    And it was also maliciously sunk once in shallow water
     
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