What makes the best offshore cruising yacht

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by LEADGlobal, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. LEADGlobal
    Joined: Apr 2017
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    LEADGlobal Junior Member

    My partner and I are about to launch a new boatbuilding company in Asia. We are still very flexable in the design and features of our sailboats. I have personaly done ocean crossings and have come up with many things we will be improving on that is currently in the market for offshore sailing yachts.
    My design style focuses on very strong sturdy design that can take a beating and keep going. But at the same time we want to keep up with new technology and have some balance between performance and comfort.
    The last boatshow i attended i was appauled by the lack of quality and craftsmanship the new boats have. Obviously they are trying to cut cost and create a less expensive design to be more competitive.

    If you were in the market to purchase, what are the things you are looking for? What do you consider to be quality? What materials do you think the new yachts should be using?

    I appreciate any and all input :)
     
  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Your questions are a bit like asking, what is the best car for interstate driving. Everyone's needs and desires are going to be different. Some will prefer a classic styling, while others want it to look like a racer. Each cruiser I've ever met has had very distinct opinions, about every aspect of any particular yacht style they like. These are based on perceptions and experience, which of course will be unique to each prospective client. Some want simplicity, others gadgets, etc., etc., etc. You'll need to refine your questions a tad, to get any reasonable replies.
     
  3. LEADGlobal
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    LEADGlobal Junior Member

    Yes very true. Let me try and refine it.

    Our boats will not be the mass production yachts like many we see in boatshows. We will focus on using technology with craftsmanship. If we build 1 per month I would be very ok with that.
    I am very experienced with using unidirectional carbon fiber and armid fibers, so there will be some of that used in our construction.
    I want our yachts known for sailing the world, not just bragging rights at the dock.
    With my sailing experience, i realize that the helm should be protected as much as possible, unlike a lot of these new production yachts, the helm is wide open on the deck and sometimes nothing to hang onto. Great for daysailing or impressing your friends for a few hours but not so much for weeks out on the ocean.

    We will incorporate lifting keels so that they can be sailed in shallow areas. Cruising grounds especially in SE asia and South Pacific have many shallow reefs and bays.

    Interiors need to have a quality feel that someone actually took pride in crafting them. Not look and feel like they just went to Walmart to fit out the boat.

    We will focus more in the shorthanded concept use technology and simplicity to facilitate this.

    I forsee our sailing yachts to be in the 35-55 foot range and i am presently working on 3 designs within that range.

    I can mention many other things but for now i hope this helps get the conversation going :)
     
  4. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    My ideal off-shore yacht would be designed for access to shallow water with an ability to dry out comfortably. Many off shore yachts have limited options for coastal exploration whereas estuaries and shallow bays are often beautiful undeveloped areas which also offer excellent protection in extreme weather. Agreed, this is not 'off shore', but at some point you have to arrive and voyaging to me only makes sense in the context of a destination.
    Other features would be a sheltered steering and watch position placed low (not perched on top of everything) and as far back as practical, well insulated hull with positive buoyancy and super simple systems designed for accessibility. The boat should be designed from the start to be resource efficient.

    What do I think is quality?
    For me, quality is several things.
    It must be functional. If it doesn't work, can't be fixed or breaks easily, that's crap.
    Quality is a uniform standard. Nice in front but shoddy behind is crap too.
    Quality is designed for longevity.
    Quality is in the small details.
    Edit: apologies, didn't see your second post, appeared while writing this.
     
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  5. schakel
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    schakel environmental project Msc

  6. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

  7. schakel
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    schakel environmental project Msc

    I heard they able to fall dry aqnd they are fast.
    I never understood the foiler at the back for aerodynamic reasons.
    But to mount radar, epirb and satelitedisc it might be handy.
     
  8. LEADGlobal
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    LEADGlobal Junior Member

    The Ovni is more inline with our concept, but not super fond of multi chine design. Although i am open to building out of aluminum as an option.
     
  9. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    Voyagers of the future will probably experience both greater frequency and greater severity of storms and be exposed to extreme waves generated by the storms that may have travelled large distances from the storm centres.
    What are the design features that should be incorporated to help survive these events?
    What rig types are most resistant to breakage in the event of a capsize?
     
  10. LEADGlobal
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    LEADGlobal Junior Member


    Good point. Thats where carbon and armid fibers incorporated in the structure is a benifit. Watertight bulkheads, and as already mentioned positive flotation foam cored hull. Lower COG, carbon spars, watertight electrical panels and battery compartments, etc...
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Building a one off, semi custom per month is about as ambitious as you can get, which I don't think is particularly reasonable, especially if looking at a higher end market. Cruisers aren't nearly as interested in high tech fabrics and build processes as sound design, innovation and solid construction methods. I've also noticed "real" cruisers are a frugal lot, in fact cheap much of the time, preferring to make do or fix it themselves, rather than rely on overseas labor, especially on things they don't fully understand or can even get parts for. I'm not talking about the harbor queens that say they're cruisers, but real sailors that have thousands of miles under their keels each year.

    I think you need to define your market a bit, possibly making your offering(s) more diverse, for a bigger market share (much like the manufactures do), then develop some designs that can entertain these small, but hearty arenas. Lastly, semi custom building isn't a good way to make money, particularly given the size of the cruising sailor portion, of the pleasure boat market (less than 5%). Most are quite lucky to break even or sneak out a few percent, per build. After a dozen or so builds, you might figure out how to streamline you production, materials, costs, etc., but we only do this because we love it, not to make mad money, because you don't. Trust me on this, I've been designing and building custom boats for some decades and though my mortgage is paid, my dogs kept fed, I'm not rich, though have "acquired" quite a bit over the years, I still don't have my Cherubini 49 yet. The best I can manage is a MacGregor.
     
  12. LEADGlobal
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    LEADGlobal Junior Member

    PAR, i admire you for doing what you love regarless of the money.
    Fortunately my company does quite well in other industries so the yacht building is a love affair and not something i plan on making any wealth from.

    With that said, I do appreciate your advice and sounds like it comes from much wisdom.
    We could take my 35' boat and make it a production boat to get our name out there, and keep the larger designs for more of the custom work.
    Yes i agree 1 a month is very ambitious, thats probably not reasonable but it would include smaller boats that are faster to build.
    By the way the Cherubini 49 is a beautiful classy yacht. Hope some day you can build her. Just keep the dream alive and it will happen.
    When i was up on the hard getting ready for an ocean crossing, the boat right next to me was a Cherubini, made my old William Garden look like a tub haha.
     
  13. Phil Christieso
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    Phil Christieso Junior Member

    What makes the best offshore cruising yacht ?
    My wife and I are a cruising couple who have sailed the thousands of miles. Here is a few points to think about.
    1 Take a look at our boat on this site....Windora's Refit... and maybe make use of some of the ideas. The refit was done after a 8 year circumnavigation and after looking closely at hundreds of cruising yachts and talking to their owners. This is not the boat to build for todays market but it is considered by so many cruisers we have met to be the near-perfect off-shore cruising boat, designed for comfort and speed.

    2 The pilothouse with inside helm is the feature that everyone loves. We find it makes cruising so comfortable in all climates, both in tropic and artic conditions. This is why my wife is still cruising after 25 years. (We also have outside steering)

    3 Draft...we have found that our draft of 6'6" has never hindered our cruising in any way. This draft is what gives you the comfort at sea. Anchoring in an area so shallow that you are left high and dry is not done as it means walking through the mud or sand to get back to the boat....and you still require a dinghy at high tide. More importantly it removes the antifoul off the hull.

    4 The more moving parts under the water, the more that can go wrong eg centerboards, twin rudders, folding propellers.

    5 There is no handicap in having a decent sized engine and large diameter propeller. Using Windora as an example, our large slow turning propeller does not produce any drag until our hull speed is over 10knots. We have a shaft alternator fitted that produces 35amps at 7 knots so our batteries remain full on ocean passages.

    6 Displacement is what gives you comfort crossing oceans. It also allows for carrying larger amounts of fuel and water in tanks below deck (eg we carry 1000L of fuel and 1000L water) plus good safe storage for anchors, dive gear, etc.

    7 It helps not to be just another white plastic boat in an anchorage full of white plastic boats, all with a caravan interior.

    8 As PAR commented, we cruisers are a frugal lot so the simpler the boat the better but money is not so much the issue. Who wants to be held up for repairs or parts. Depending on where you are, this can be very frustrating and time consuming.
     
  14. LEADGlobal
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    LEADGlobal Junior Member

    Phil, lots of great usable information there and things to consider. I also have a 6 ft draft and has gotten me into most atols and islands i want to visit.

    And i agree, in all reality who would want to rest their boat on a mud bottom intentionaly anyway haha. But i have a realy solid lifting bulb keel design that is prettymuch bulletproof and has redundent features. I never liked the swinging centerboard. My design goes straight up and no cables or winches to jamb up.

    One of my frustrations i see in modern sailboats is the lack of fuel capacity and engines that are undersized for the boat includig mine. In my opinion, the engine should have enough power to run the boat at hull speed.

    An inside helm is definately on my list. Dont know how many times i was bombed by a wave coming over my cockpit in heavy weather, i remember telling myself, sure would be nice to have an inside helm!

    I will definately check out your boat and glean whatever i can. Thanks :)
     

  15. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    Did we meet in Crookhaven, early summer?
     
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