what i do

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by sergewithadream, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. sergewithadream
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Location: melbourne australia

    sergewithadream Junior Member

    cookie keep them coming please for me
    i heard lots good about west sistem epoxy , hope is not just bit new fashion for me too
    never talked to Joel about it
    agree
    apex ,feel free to give advice on some of my questions too
     
  2. sergewithadream
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Location: melbourne australia

    sergewithadream Junior Member

    and i have a feeling if i put all my dream in here
    she be worth over 100.000e to someone somewhere south of france
    with her Australian history not that i would ever sell her, maybe rent her out
    to some special people to recover some of the cost
    also she has a future home and dock on the island of Brac town Bol
    and Herceg Novi, Adriatic
    where the seas are quet like oil so gentle and where the moon is so close and the wines are made so that she can retire in peace and be pround from what and where she has come from

    everybody is bringing wife,s home and am bringing her , so she must be made good:)

    have a great day everyone
     
  3. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

  4. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    more:
    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=7944581
    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=7598307
    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=6867651
    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/details.aspx?R=2818540
    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=7694056
    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/details.aspx?R=3100000
    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/details.aspx?R=2892302

    every one of them well under $40k....and you can use them NOW....learn to sail them, fix them and enjoy them.

    the boat you have there will never be worth $100k so STOP wasting your time and effort on a DEAD HORSE......great that you are enthusiastic about a wooden boat, but some of those listed above are not very old either, so they have years of enjoyment and normal maintenance instead of LOTS of money and work for very little result.

    think again about having a boat that you can actually live on and sail NOW.....you are dead for a long time, enjoy your like while you have it! GO CRUISING NOW.....$40 K will last for 4 years easily when living and cruising on any of these boats.
     
  5. Landlubber
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    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

  6. Landlubber
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    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

  7. Ramona
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: Australia

    Ramona Senior Member

    I live in Greenwell Point NSW. Presumably its a Yanmar ysm 12, single horizontal cylinder. These are quite a common engine from the 1970's and still in regular use.

    Whatever you do keep away from fibreglass and epoxy sheathing on this type of vessel, its instant death to this style of construction. Its fine to sheath the deck in epoxy and cloth. Your friend is oil based paint. When I was a kid growing up in South Australia I used to help the fishermen building their boats to paint the linseed concoction on the frames etc.

    Wait till the old bloke has a crawl around and see what he says. For what you got for 5 grand I think you did well. The trick now is not to overcapitalise.
     
  8. Ramona
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    Location: Australia

    Ramona Senior Member

  9. sergewithadream
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Location: melbourne australia

    sergewithadream Junior Member

    thank you and and she is a lovely boat, well done
    had a chance to see it 1st thanks to landlubber the boat dealer
    was she in a bad situation??

    is it bad that it rained after i have painted it with linseed/kerosine
    and that wood was bit moist
    is it possible that i have trapped the rain in the wood or something???
    and that it can't dry now deep inside
    this all am imagining, assumeing but is it possible, can it hurt her

    is doing my head in and don"t want to call old man 20 times a day
    he sad this morning is fine and that this stuff goes right trough ,

    yes i sad b4 i was looking to spend 40 50k, and on bigger boat too but with her i was and am hoping would be half as that and i would be there by 04.2011 much b4 planed
    she is 8 m forgot to say
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Serge,

    forget about Epoxy! Except for glueing some parts maybe, it has nothing to do with such restoration. Using the original materials and methods is the way to go. Your old Joel seems to know a bit about it, as far as one can judge from your comments.
    Not that I am against Epoxy (I build wood Epoxy boats), but cookie´s comment has nothing in common with your project. It was phantasy.

    As others here already mentioned, your boat will never have a value just close to the amount of money you invest, let alone 100k.

    A few days ago I did a survey, leading to a purchase of a 10 meter boat, built in 1966 and always maintained, restored to high levels. She is in pristine condition and we sailed her right away with no problem (in stormy and cold winter conditions).
    This boat sold for 15.000€ !!! Would it have been in central Europe and not in Turkey she would have gone for 10.000€.
    Become familiar with the fact, that this is the ballpark your boat is in, when perfect restored!
    The personal value it might have for you is a different animal, and I thought I made that clear in my former post. But you will never, never, never get back what you invested.
    Sorry to rain on your parade, but these are the facts behind the dreams.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. cookie munster
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    cookie munster Junior Member

    Only if you fantasize that “someone” recommended sheathing the boat with cloth and epoxy WITHOUT getting the hull/structure sorted out first. Epoxy and cloth are good for protecting the wood AFTER restoring the wood, but other materials/paint can be used too.

    You need to fix the woodwork, no matter what. What I tried to explain was that it is a boat, made of wood, glue, screws and some hardware (Richard, don't start fussing about some detail I may have forgotten please).
    Wood cost about 2000 bucks a cubic m. if you need to rebuild almost everything, you're probably looking at 2 cubic m wood, + glue + whatever. That gives you a guideline for estimating costs.
    If, after having an idea of how much you need to replace, you can't make an estimate, using the principles I illustrated, you have a problem. It is not rocket science, it's boat building. Done many times by many people, well documented, cost calculations included. To get an idea of how much you need to replace, you're best of asking an expert.

    Serge, I would advise to read, listen and learn a lot before doing significant work on your boat. There is quite a lot one can go wrong, and only a few ways to do it right.


    Good luck
     
  12. cookie munster
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    cookie munster Junior Member

  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Cookie,

    I do´nt fantasize....never

    No one of the skilled experts in the field, like PAR, recommends sheathing, not me either.
    And sorry, but the way you like to calculate the cost of such task, show your lack of experience in that field quite clear.

    Posting the link to a newbuild, as a example for this task, backs my opinion about your "expertise" quite well again.

    If you would have had the politeness of reading the thread before contradicting, you would have noticed, there are some experts around here, and they agree unisono, that a proper done restoration of such boat can end up at twice the cost of a newbuilt.

    So, what is your argueing good for, and where did you get your knowledge about the topic?
     
  14. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    cookie monster,

    Pleeeeeeze do not let serge assume that the costs of doing the job properly can be any where near the cost of a new build, it simply is not so.
     

  15. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm familiar with Rod's build of Susan and he openly admits to speculation on a number of treatments, such as epoxying down the teak and other questionable techniques.

    One example of a traditional(ish) build, particularly one with the builder's own obvious concerns is not a testament to employing these methods. A single test bed is a more accurate description.

    There's no doubting the value of epoxy in many aspects of a build, but in a traditional build, there are much fewer areas where you can use this miracle goo.

    This isn't subject to debate among those that work on these boats for a living, or more importantly have to have their work insured afterwards, in spite of some comments here, by those seemly enamored with epoxy.

    Many texts, books and previous threads here have debated the value of sheathing carvel hulls with fabrics, in theroset plastics. With the exception of a few such as here on this particular thread, the overwhelming majority of experienced builders, repairers and restores do not recommend these techniques on carvel hulls.

    It may be much simpler to ask Cookie Munster to qualify these remarks with data. How many carvel hulls have you sheathed? Sheathing thickness relative to planking? Resin system employed? In the field tests to confirm longevity and durability? How many carvel restorations have you preformed? Cost analyses of the restorations or rebuilds? How many still in service? Etc., etc., etc. all reasonable requests.

    In light of the contrary to accepted practice nature of your "ideas" Cookie, maybe some justification of these practices is in order.
     
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