What hull will be most efficient between 8-12 kts?

Discussion in 'Hydrodynamics and Aerodynamics' started by dustman, Oct 9, 2021.

  1. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 5,258
    Likes: 1,006, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    I could not afford to transport a catamaran from Minneapolis to San Diego. I had a bid of 55k. He said he was going to tip the boat, so not sure there is an issue with the cost for him.

    If you do build this boat, please sea trial it well before setting out. Include a few runs out of surf.

    I do think some sage advice has come from Mr E on engines. A couple of 9.9s is probably really best. Electrics get you a mile or 3 for a lot of battery weight.

    Also, be careful around the rotational issues that present in cats. The beam sockets cannot be made from 2# pour foam; for one, but you seem to have some understanding here. I am nervous my beams should have been set in upside down for same reasons.
     
  2. dustman
    Joined: Jun 2019
    Posts: 143
    Likes: 13, Points: 18
    Location: Tucson, AZ

    dustman Senior Member

    True, but I'm not crossing oceans. People have crossed the Atlantic on what amount to beach cats that were smaller and less stable than what I'm proposing. The sea states are tame in the bahamas almost all the time. There are hundreds if not thousands of much less seaworthy boats buzzing around there every day.
     
  3. dustman
    Joined: Jun 2019
    Posts: 143
    Likes: 13, Points: 18
    Location: Tucson, AZ

    dustman Senior Member

    I would be going from here to Corpus Christi, TX. A 24' x 12' cat can be mounted sideways on a car hauler with 18" deck and meet the regulations.
     
  4. dustman
    Joined: Jun 2019
    Posts: 143
    Likes: 13, Points: 18
    Location: Tucson, AZ

    dustman Senior Member

    At 12' beam I can transport on its side on a car hauler without permit. I have access to a vehicle and trailer for this.

    I'll be putting in at Corpus Christy, TX. Will be cruising around the bay first and poking out into the gulf to see how it behaves in the waves. Going as far east as possible using the intracoastal waterways, and otherwise will be sticking close to shore and ducking in when I need to.

    I'll have 5kw of battery and 1kw of solar which should produce 4-5kw daily average. 9kw gives me around 60 miles of range at 3-4mph. Plus I will have a small sail. A 5kw tesla module weighs 55lbs.

    The loads will be transferred to the foam by the aluminum spine within which is attached to the crossmembers, there will be no point loading on the foam or fiberglass skin. More worried about beam on wave impacts breaking off the front tip of the hull because the spine can't extend past a certain point where the hull is too narrow, but will manage that by intentional application of fiberglass.
     
  5. dustman
    Joined: Jun 2019
    Posts: 143
    Likes: 13, Points: 18
    Location: Tucson, AZ

    dustman Senior Member

    You can be rest assured that I'll be doing a detailed weight study, down to the last fork.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,388
    Likes: 1,022, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Your construction details seem eerily similar to one that was talked about on a thread, where a fella made a metal mesh ferrule, sprayed the foam on to it, then sanded it to the shape he wanted (sounds easy, but would be very difficult to get a fair result ) and finally glassed over that. Unorthodox, and really not sound, structurally, lightweight PU foam cannot be considered a structural element, but you are making it one.
     
  7. dustman
    Joined: Jun 2019
    Posts: 143
    Likes: 13, Points: 18
    Location: Tucson, AZ

    dustman Senior Member

    He did it the hard way. You just aren't envisioning it. And the foam is not really a structural element, the 4" square aluminum tube inside it is the structural element. The load on any particular part of the foam will be very small. The fair result will be easy with the tool and jig I will be making, and that kind of foam is easy to sand. The shaping in one of the dimensions will already be done by the form. Artists use it to make sculptures, granted they use the 6lb so they can get fine detail. It's nothing like the eps foam you buy in home depot. Regardless, there will be plenty of experimentation prior to building.

    I'd be interested to see that guys project if you can point me to it. Did he have problems with it? The problem with that approach is that you are then relying on the fiberglass to spread the load over the foam, and I imagine making the attachment to the mounting points was an issue.

    Just so y'all know, I have been building and fixing things for a living for the past 20 years, so not totally talking out of my ***.
     
  8. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 5,258
    Likes: 1,006, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    @dustman

    Have you considered a trimaran? The amas could be made really cheaply.
    the foam can't take the loads unless it has enough strength...most of the time higher loads require heavier foams...

    I may be living in Corpus Christi by the time you launch.
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,388
    Likes: 1,022, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The way I understood it, the frame is not going to be attached to the GRP skin, there will be only PU foam in between ?
     
  10. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,491
    Likes: 280, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 158

    Barry Senior Member

    Yamaha has a High Thrust 25hp that fills some of the gap between 9.9 and 40hp
     
  11. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,388
    Likes: 1,022, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Unless I am reading the specs wrongly, the 25 high thrust has a 2.08:1 gear ratio, which doesn't sound ideal
     
  12. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,491
    Likes: 280, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 158

    Barry Senior Member

    My understanding is that the ratio is numerically higher and the prop diameter is larger as well. Yamaha was pushing their new 25, regular thrust outboard as lightest in its class, different ratio and standard diameter prop
     
  13. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,388
    Likes: 1,022, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I have seen it stated as 2.08 in several places, in the high thrust, which does come in 25" leg too, they may be running more blades and less pitch and the reverse exhaust deflector, if it was a bigger reduction it certainly would be interesting. The only way that would work is if they were using the gearbox and props off say a 40hp, but with the bigger reduction, I am quite happy to be pointed to a source that shows it isn't 2.08
     
  14. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,491
    Likes: 280, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 158

    Barry Senior Member

    T25 High Thrust - Yamaha Motor Canada https://www.yamaha-motor.ca/en/water/outboard-motor/high-thrust/t25-high-thrust/T25-High-Thrust
    Above is a link to a Yamaha manufactures page that shows the ratio at 2.42. There are other sites that show the 2.08. Certainly some confusion
     

  15. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,388
    Likes: 1,022, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Thanks Barry, 2.42 sounds much better, but these Yamaha products websites are a shocker, I can't get much out of them.

    Edit: I chanced of the relevant detail on the clunky website
    29/12 (2.42:1)
    Not a fuel injected engine, some other brands in that power range are these days I think
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. mitchgrunes
    Replies:
    30
    Views:
    3,476
  2. xanthar
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,184
  3. pietermariof
    Replies:
    14
    Views:
    2,415
  4. krawiec
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    192
  5. Leo Ambtman
    Replies:
    24
    Views:
    1,634
  6. Bukmaster9
    Replies:
    32
    Views:
    1,808
  7. dustman
    Replies:
    70
    Views:
    2,889
  8. MoeZ
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    863
  9. NoviceJoe
    Replies:
    20
    Views:
    3,118
  10. myszek
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,019
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.