What happen to regular fiberglass on water?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Shafri, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    Does this mean that Par knows too much :D
     
  2. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Fly on the Wall - Miss ddt yet?

    Einstein knew too much and no one has heard from him in a long time.:D
     
  3. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Fly on the Wall - Miss ddt yet?

    And yes.
     
  4. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    That makes two people that knows too much, Par and Gnarles Barkley :eek:
     
  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Fly on the Wall - Miss ddt yet?

    Don't tell the mob!
     
  6. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Come on guys, let's give him information.
     
  7. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Fly on the Wall - Miss ddt yet?

    OK. Start small with first boat. Stay close to shore. Wear flotation device. Carry anchor, oars, signaling device. Enjoy the first build and learn techniques before moving to a bigger project. Mat has its uses but woven cloth is what I prefer overall. Maybe make 1st boat glass on wood just to get used to the chemical properties and qualities of the material.
     
  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Bruce Roberts, leaving aside what many people don't like about him, gives great advice to the customers he sells plans to. Included are the plans for the boat's tender. He recommends to first build the dinghy. It gives you two things: a first boat to build which is easier and faster, and something to go boating on when you are fed up of working on the bigger boat.
     
  9. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    Or you can start with a smaller part for the boat.
     
  10. Shafri
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Shafri Mechatrommer

    thanx for all the reply.

    1) apologize if what i said is not good, i'm not really familiar with the community yet. maybe seamen/sailor/fishermen are harder than i got used to :D... kidding.
    2) i dont mind OT and jokes in my thread, that could be fun.
    3) i dont mind people call me stupid. but i do mind people call me to think that other people are stupid. if i think everybody are stupid in this forum, i would not have join and ask questions.
    4) maybe i should re-plan for more realistic first. i'll figure out for smaller scale boat, that the most advice i got, and the most rational for me right now... i think.
    5) my original intention i just want to know if regular resin works. i got astonished when people got confused with my question. PAR cannot see clearly the issue and ask for regular FRP boat available, what?!. Landlubber want my plan. Hmm, i guess thats how usually people work... with regular resin. i should have not asked such a question in the first place.

    maybe piston got triggered by this, so apologize again. and yes! i cannot distinguish what is poly what is epoxy. what i know is some sticky, smelly, itchy stuffs when i got working with it.

    i dont think its easy and an overnight task. if i do, i would not ask questions, i would jump in my boot and start building.

    o ok, gotta do more self learning then... so to be ready when he's around.

    very good in depth detailed advice, thanx.

    if the small project means... anything, other than boat, then i've done quite a number, small scale. but if it means small project = small boat, then everybody is suggesting it, so building small boat is/should in my mind, we'll see how its perform in the marine environment. hope i dont get killed and have money left over for a bigger project. Cheers ;)
     
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  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Polyester and vinylester resins use a liquid hardener; usually MEK peroxide. Epoxies are a mixture of two resins. One is confusingly called hardener. The ratio varies between 1:1 to 5:1 for most common epoxy formulations.
    I assume you are describing polyester. That is a standard construction resin and works fine.
     
  12. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    If building a craft of any size- start with a proven design and build it with scantlings that are drawn up to accommodate the grade/type of materials you are using.
    (or even a small boat for that matter... )

    The short answer to your question is that the material will work provided that the engineering is present in the design to meet the loads that the structure will face, AND, the construction is done with acceptable technique.
    The first will come from the design you use, the last you must learn.

    Given the costs of all the other required materials and equipment that make up a boat, I don't know if I would build the hull from the lowest grade of materials.
    Do you just happen to have a bunch of chopped strand mat? Or is there some other reason for choosing this material?

    In my humble opinion- solid mat construction is suitable for bathtubs, not boats.

    [​IMG]

    http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/09/02/first-man-to-cross-irish-sea-ina-bathtub-motorboat/
     
  13. Shafri
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    Shafri Mechatrommer

    thanx gonzo, now i know the naming. but the poly and mek that i used, they are nothing like 1:1 or 1:5 ratio, usually i will put, like 1 part hardener (mek) : 50,100 or even like 200 part resin (i dont know the exact), to be comfortable working with it, more hardener than that, even the slightest, will result in faster curing, not to mention the high temperature thats capable of cracking the cured resin itself. from experience building small things, i dont think i'll have enough time laying up even a small boat if i put more hardener closer to your mentioned 1:5 ratio. that thing can cure as fast as one or two minute only!

    thanx for the advice. i do happen to have a small bunch of CSM, and our local hardware shop only selling such a glass and only polyester and MEK type as gonzo described. and i wish i can get stronger material for the boat building like the woven fabric, or roving if i'm not mistaken the name is.

    there is no particular reason why i choose CSM for building a boat, and i cannot prove the effectiveness whatsoever. it just happen to be only that thats available in my local shop and nothing else. or maybe i havent search enough yet.

    maybe my original question should be... "what if i cannot find better glass? can i build boat with CSM+poly+MEK?" but still, its now apparent to me that it still a stupid question to ask.
     
  14. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    The question is a very appropriate one to ask and I will return to my prior thesis:

    The hull you build should have it's layup designed to reflect the fact the you are using CSM for its construction.

    I mostly use the biax fabrics for the work I do.
    Simply stated the stronger fabrics allow less to be used for equivalent strength. So your CSM hull will be thicker and heavier. By how much I can't quantify.

    There are members here who have a great deal of experience in this and will with time offer a opinion.

    Please understand that this approach of an engineered structure is perhaps too formal.
    Lots of folks (myself included at times) would just get some materials together and do the engineering by eye.
    The risk of this is in the mistakes one will make and the cost in time and materials if done on a larger project.
     

  15. Shafri
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    Shafri Mechatrommer

    thats why i came out with such a noob and confusing question. maybe i worry too much the risk of failing with what i called "regular fiberglass" earlier (which is csm+poly+mek), from material point of view, not the strength and structural design point of view. i've read the FAO's info under the repairing and maintainace of FRP (just checked back the saved file in my HDD, PINHOLING, SPOTTING, BLISTERS to name a few, sorry for the caps, i just copy pasted).

    i was afraid this "regular FG" will leak too much, haha funny. i guess that should be on another section of whole lot a new story on repairing FRP. maybe my issue will be to find the perfection technique of making the boat using the "regular fiberglass" or the precise name is CSM, poly and mek. ifffff, i cannot find the better material.

    and i know 10% reading/studying it, and another 90% is actually doing it. thanx for much helping me mates/gurus. ;)
     
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