what do you think of SeaSteading?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The environmental impact study (PDF) mentioned by Dejay in post #74 tells the John Brewer Reef Floating Hotel had its own sewage handling system.

    Quote = the John Brewer Reef floating hotel Environmental Impact Study, the bottom ½ of page 21, which is PDF page 24:
    If this all worked as well as the Hotel's from day one disintegrating structures and the failing financial planning, then I've little faith their rudimentary sewage cleaning system worked very well, which is confirmed by the quoted part of the study.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  2. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

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    If they can float a tennis court in front of the floating hotel on the Great Barrier Reef, then they can also float a constructed wetland on pontoons around the hotel. It usually needs about 3 ~ 5 m² constructed wetland per person in an average western european household to clean all waste water, incl. the blackwater, to make it clean enough to discharge it into the surrounding surface waters.

    — below some constructed wetland types from the above link —
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    Dutch link 1

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    The below video shows Dutch kids who built a constructed wetland as a school project to clean the blackwater from the toilets at their school, so it can be discharged into the surrounding surface waters. The video tells that before the blackwater goes to the constructed wetland it first goes through a three stage septic tank.

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    "helofytenfilter" = Dutch for: "constructed wetland" — Dutch school project video


    Dutch link 2
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    The above illustration shows schematically what is to be seen in the video.​

    Left side = incoming sewage, consisting of greywater and also blackwater from the toilets.​

    1 = three stage septic tank (turns incoming blackwater into outgoing greywater)
    2 = pump unit in a pump pit
    3 = reed plants
    4 = greywater distribution piping network
    5 = filter bed consisting of various layers of sand and gravel of different kinds in which the reed plants root.
    6 = clean water drainage piping network
    7 = outgoing water check pit
    8 = clean water discharge to the surface water, but it also can be reused to flush the toilets again, by using a hydrophore to get pressure on the recycled water.​
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  3. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I might try a bit of Sea-Slumming. :) Most of this actually sounds pretty cosy, at least if you didn't need to depend on it. Scare up a couple floating hulks and a way to tow them to a spot, drop anchor and you in business. https://harpers.org/archive/2019/05/lost-at-sea-ric6hardson-bay/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
    TLDR but I don't think they really addressed the SEWAGE issue and I don't think these people are "holding it" until they get to shore. Says when a guy died they just light his boat on fire and shove him out to see. I think they were pulling the reporter's leg, didn't hear about anything in news about any fires on the bay.
    10yrs ago I'd have told "no way would USCG etc let a bunch of bums live on boats without sewer hookups on the Bay" but now there is general "de-policing" of homeless, especially in SF.
     
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  4. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I think any SeaStead should harvest enough wind, wave and current and solar energy to be energy self-sufficient, including making their own fresh water from seawater by reverse osmosis. And also cleaning their own grey and black wastewater, for either reuse or clean discharge to sea. In times when there's a surplus of energy then additional freshwater stocks can be built up and stored for later use. Further energy surplus can be transferred into H2 (hydrogen) and stored for later energy use, converted back to electric energy in a fuel cell, to bridge times of natural energy scarcity. Also batteries can be used for this, just what's most efficient with the technologies available at that time, and the time and amount of energy that needs to be stored for later use.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  5. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

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  6. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Well the "ideal" seastead would find ways to compost and reuse the waste. Good old nightsoil :) Some kind of greenhouse or vertical farm and maybe aquaponics.

    The simplest way would be a urine diverting drying toilet. Most of what I know is from the pretty extensive wikipedia page but separating it makes it less gross smelling and drying it with for example an integrated dehumidifier sterilizes it and uses less energy. You end up with much less to deal with too and no pipes. You could compost, burn or discharge it into the sea then.

    The UDDT is an example of a really shitty technology that can make a big difference in the world! :)
     
  7. KarlH
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Minnesota

    KarlH Junior Member

    Thailand decided to put the "finger" somewhere else:

    Thai Government Takes Over Seastead Near the Thai Coast https://reason.com/2019/04/15/thai-government-takes-over-seastead-near-the-thai-coast/
     
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  8. KarlH
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Minnesota

    KarlH Junior Member

    I like the idea, but you might want to consider burning some of the waste and recovering the energy.

    Your Carnot efficiency will be higher than if you had gone the biogas route, and your methane emissions will be reduced relative to composting without collecting the gas. You also get higher-grade waste heat, which could be handy for desalination.
     
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  9. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The constructed wetland only processes grey water into clean surface water, and it can also be reused to flush the toilets again. The sludge (feces) from the black water is collected in a three stage septic tank before the constructed wetland. Methane and other released gasses can be collected from the three stage septic tank, and burned to harvest the energy from it, and to make the emissions far less harmful to the environment. The three stage septic tank partly processes the sludge from the black water in a anaerobic process, the remaining black water sludge residue needs to be periodically removed from the three stage septic tank. The removed black water sludge residue can be dried and composted while the then released gasses also can be collected for energy use, or when dry the sludge residue can be burned for energy, that heat can be partly used for the drying, processing the blackwater sludge residue in a biogas installation is also an option. This all without the need for any Potty Police to enforce potty rules. When the potty instructions get just a little complicated then there always will be some individuals who mess up the system when no one is looking, mostly doing so accidentally by mistakes, just like Murphy says in his law. An German U-boat captain even sank his U-boat by ignoring the potty rules, while three of his crew were killed in the event. That's no joke, however it was posted on the boat jokes thread from post #6690 to #6696.

    about some different rules, but still it's the Potty Police in action . . :)

     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  10. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    That's a serious warning about Thai laws, and their possible interpretation about it . . :eek:

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    I've just looked into the SeaStead itself: Ocean BuildersBlog

    Some pics from the blog:
    - Spar interior render
    - Spar build
    - Seastead spar waiting to be towed out to sea - (large) - most of the spar looks to be near horizontal submerged in the pic
    - Spar from the bottom viewing up - (large)
    - Bottom of the spar - (large)

    It seem to be floating like a spar type oil rig* with a house on top instead of the platform.

    * see the thread: Vertical Sailing Craft to circumnavigate Antarctica at 1 knotpost #24 & #26
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  11. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Well this is ironic. Libertarian moves to the freedom of the sea because of how oppressive taxes are, gets crushed by dictator instead. Oh you like freedom? BAM! :p

    I'm glad they are ok because I can stop laughing. But I'm also crying into my marxist manifesto...

    It definitely shows you're going to need at least tacit approval and friendly relations with your neighbor state.
    And you need the option to be mobile enough to move the complete seastead. That's why I was asking about SWATH vs spar in the other thread.

    Also thanks Angelique for posting that insanity inducing video! :)
     
  12. KarlH
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Minnesota

    KarlH Junior Member

    A couple of interesting exceprts from the comment thread on that Reason article:
    Another poster claimed that Thailand asserts a contiguous zone extending 24 miles into the ocean.
     
  13. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Interesting. Might be the reason they kind of overreact.
    The facebook post by Chad Elwartowski linked in the reason article is also interesting
     
  14. KarlH
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 27
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    Location: Minnesota

    KarlH Junior Member

    @Angélique, thanks for the information about spar rigs. I've been interested in small waterplane designs, but the ones I was familiar with had bulbous hulls or floats.

    That wastewater management system sounds pretty respectable.

    Even if people do follow the 'potty rules,' substances like pharmaceutical residues often pass through wastewater treatment systems. That's probably not a big problem when discharging grey-water into the ocean, but it can result in measurable levels of those substances in confined spaces like small rivers with large populations nearby.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019

  15. KarlH
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Minnesota

    KarlH Junior Member

    This is sort of true: "Hunting us down to our death is just plain stupid and highlights exactly the reason someone would be willing to go out in middle of the ocean to get away from governments."

    On the other hand, if Thailand claims 12 nautical miles of territorial waters, and he claims to be a sovereign nation 12 miles from their coast, then he could claim territorial waters overlapping theirs.

    Makes me wonder if the Thai authorities tired to talk to him first, or came without warning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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