what do you think of SeaSteading?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. dsigned
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    dsigned O.R.C. Hunter

    Roman concrete is not the current state-of-the-art in concrete mix design. While I've been out of the game long enough that there are probably some advances I'm unaware of, I can give you a run-down of what you could build.

    So-called "Roman" concrete makes use of another reaction that's different from the reaction in Portland cement called a pozzolanic reaction. Details aside, what's important for our purposes is that you can add about 15% pozzolanic material in place of portland cement and get something like the best of both worlds. Also of significance are two other advances directly related to concrete: fiberglass rebar and polyvinyl alcohol fibers. The former more or less eliminates the problems associated with ion infiltration with standard steel rebar: rust. When iron (steel) rusts, the volume expands significantly, which is basically the end of your concrete. So fiberglass ensures that even if your concrete does allow ions to interact with your reinforcement, it's not going to royally mess your concrete up.

    PVA fibers address two of the biggest historical flaws of concrete: brittleness and strength in tension (which are related issues). It works much the same way as other chopped fibers do with one major difference being that it has a really strong chemical bond with concrete, so pull out strength becomes more or less a non-issue. This is something of an oversimplification, but I think for the sake of understanding how it benefits the concrete it's "good enough". One final note about PVA fibers is that they contribute to the ability of the concrete to self-heal by essentially keeping it together, and allowing the concrete to re-bond.

    One final area of interest is lightweight concretes. There are a few different ways to achieve this, including ultra-lightweight aggregates and foaming agents (making aircrete), but the upshot is that you could build in bouyancy chambers that would make the vessel very difficult to sink.
     
  2. JamesG123
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    JamesG123 Senior Member


    I think trying to colonize Antarctica would be more practical. lol

    The extreme costs of such an effort requires extreme motivation/justification. About the only things that would qualify would be some kind of military advantage (Chinese SCS bases) or the extraction of some rare and valuable natural resources (oil, deep sea minerals etc.). Surely not an old folks home.

    This then drives how you actually go about doing so. Floating? Submerged? Steel? Concrete? Its all speculation and a million variables engineering and business-wise that have to be considered.
     
  3. dsigned
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    dsigned O.R.C. Hunter

    You're mistaken about the old folks home:
    Senior Living at Sea | The Cruise Web https://cruiseweb.com/senior-living-at-sea/
     
  4. JamesG123
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    JamesG123 Senior Member

    Thats not an old folks home. That is the cruise lines filling the excess capacity on their ships.
     
  5. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Most of SF Bay would be covered in houseboats, floating roads, parking lots and 7/11 stores if not for NIMBY laws.

    And that could include full water/sewer etc hookups and insurance.
     
  6. JamesG123
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    JamesG123 Senior Member

    That is an artifact of the distorted real-estate market and a bunch of marinas in a sheltered bay does not a seastead make IMO.
     
  7. midlifecrisis
    Joined: Feb 2019
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    midlifecrisis Junior Member

    Thank you very much,
    So this information was only lost if you were a geologist or archaeologist, but working civil engineer in marine environments have been familiar with much of this stuff for years.

    However I was in Seattle when the Lake Washington Bridge sunk, so I know that the amount of stupidity needed to cause something to sink is in great supply.
     
  8. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I'm thinking if allowed to "run wild" (with only sewer/garbage being required) the developments would organically start edging into deeper and rougher waters (cheaper but more problematic "real estate") and The Market (including Underwriters) would figure out how to solve problems.

    Although going from sheltered swallow flats of SF Bay to just outside the Golden Gate a pretty huge leap. But I could see anchoring old cruise ships about a 1/4 mile out and running ferry service to SF.
     
  9. dsigned
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    dsigned O.R.C. Hunter

    Setting aside the fact that there is at least one cruise ship I found in about five minutes of googling that does indeed cater exclusively to people looking to retire abord full time, you're also neglecting the fact that you're simply wrong. Condos are for sale on cruise ships and are being actively marketed at people as an alternative to a traditional retirement community. I don't know if you've priced those kinds of places lately, but suffice to say a lot of people are paying for resorts anyway, and a cruise ship is able to be competitive with all inclusive resorts (which is what a lot of old folks home are, in effect).
     
  10. JamesG123
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    JamesG123 Senior Member

    I'm not exactly in the market. I guess it never occurred to you that since '08 the cruise lines have had entire ships worth of excess capacity. Marketeers baiting Boomers into pissing away their children's inheritance or what could be better used for charity on living in "luxury", at least until the money runs out, then they will wind up in real old folks homes where their social security only gets them a shared room and lukewarm food.
     
  11. KarlH
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    KarlH Junior Member

    Already claimed. It's MINE.
     
  12. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Oh well, then I claim the earth's waters that yet are regarded to be international.

    And of course I also claim all planets and space outside of the earth.

    BTW, why is this planet called earth, while most of its surface consists out of water ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  13. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Oh I love the idea of some kind of SeaSteading utopia. Crashes with reality hard though. Damn reality! And I think such a community would have to adopt some social democratic principles in order to flourish.

    There was an article posted here recently by Lim Soon Heng of the "Society of Floating Solutions" (love that name) about naval architecture to replace land reclamation.

    Maybe business cases could be made for boat building, loading / unloading

    Or for power generation from solar and wind farms (kite sails?). Maybe hydrogen production.

    Or maybe in the future we'll see the technology to sequester carbon out of seawater which could make a business case.

    I do think this speaks to a primal motivation of humans to settle new "lands". It doesn't have to make sense, it's just what we do. People are willing to go on a one way trip to mars!
    At least with crowdfunding, if you could make a plausible business case and put a good presentation on e.g. kickstarter for something that aligns with the values of enough people, you would get a lot of funding just because it's cool. Or maybe for a 2 week long stay with the ability to "buy in".

    It would have to produce something or offer services and be profitable in order to work, but with crowdfunding it wouldn't have to be more profitable than doing the same thing on land.

    But it's probably all way too expensive.
     
  14. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I'm not sure SeaSteading is more romantic than cruising, and here's eg a typical day out of the life of a cruiser.
     
    Dejay likes this.

  15. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Sorry I clicked on the link but it was too long and boring to read ;)

    Well yeah, reality...

    Traveling on a cruising sailboat is definitely more romantic and interesting! I think the appeal for this would be more of a sustainable and somewhat independent community. It should be large enough to be significantly cheaper than cruising and allows for economies of scale and working together for maintenance and building and maintaining things. And more entertainment. You'd need a school and doctors too. Less of an adventure.
     
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