What Do We Think About Climate Change

Boston, please stop trying to patronize and condescend to me, just because I won't buy into your one-sided, "mistreated and misunderstood noble red man" schtick. If there's any misunderstanding here, it's on your side; I'm willing to bet I know more about the history of Native Americans and their interactions with European settlers than you do.

I'm not buying into your rather novel idea that Thanksgiving should be a time to inflict racial guilt on people, for things that happened hundreds of years ago.

I've already heard what you do for Columbus Day and Thanksgiving, so tell me: how do you celebrate Christmas? With even more gloomy musings about how it might be a happy time for some, but for Native Americans it's just a sad reminder of how they were abused, slaughtered and enslaved by white Christians?

You really need a better hobby....

 

See what you've started by crying in your beer, Boston? Here come the rest of them....

 

History is an awesome hobby
you should try it sometime
specially from the point of view of others
makes it all the more interesting

cheers
by the way I've recently been given a book that although I haven't started it yet has a very interesting tittle
Pagan Christianity
Viola/Barna
its essentially a history of how the Christian church absorbed the pagan holidays in an effort to convert the populations it encountered. I'll ad it to the hundred or so others I have on Christian history as its one of my favorite subjects. For instance the ancient Jews were a tribe of primitives living in the highlands surrounding the Canaan valley called the Hycsos, Turns out there was no conquest of the valley but instead a drought that left the valley empty and the Hycsos gradually moved in. You might also read The Bible Unearthed as its fantastic on where the archeological evidence leads. If you prefer to stick to native american history thats fine though, I would recommend a few by Thomas E Mails or H Storm, Black Elk and McCook on Ouray for starters, but I'm sure you already have the bread and butter stuff on your bookshelves.

personally I always find others views on native american history very interesting so please feel free

cheers
B

 

It's too bad the public school systems across this country are subsidized by the money wrenched by force from the wallets of American taxpayers so that anti-American unionized left-leaning weenies can teach lies against my country to the children so that they can grow up hating white America as much as you do. My family fought against itself so that freedom could reign for everyone. My grandfather was a judge in Colorado who was well-loved by the Navajo. My great.......grandmother was dis-owned by her family for working for the underground railroad. My great.......grandfather came south with the Connecticutt Volunteers to fight slavery. Don't even expect reparations from me.

 

at something you read on the web?

 

truth is relational

 

history is a funny thing, it's not what you think it is even if you're there making it

it will affect people down the road in ways that can't be foreseen

the american revolution didn't affect other people much at the time but but within a hundred years it had a great affect on the world

 

So, war-dd, are you the result of The Butterfly Effect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

 

on chaotic thing is the deniers thinking

ok two chaotic things, the thinking on the right, which doesn't rise to the level of reasoning

 

well this is getting silly isn't it

who mentioned Reparations and who's unionized. Whats up with the disowned part and who said they hated white America. ( I even wished my white brothers a happy thanksgiving and suggested maybe they learn a little history ) I was talking history and how people of varying cultural backgrounds might see certain holidays as representing very different things.

some of you guys are getting kinda funny its going so far off base

my original post read as follows

maybe someone can point out the part about whose one up on history or the bits about unions to me cause I must have missed it

 

'Culturally' speaking, Boston, you're no more Indian than I am. As a matter of fact you may be less, because at least I was raised to be up front and proud of my Indian blood. Some of my cooking and eating habits come from my Indian relatives, such as my fondness for red chile pork stew over fry bread. I suspect I know the history of the Cherokee and the Choctaw better than you know the history of the Cayuga. And one of my great aunts taught me some Cherokee when I was young, although I forgot most of it years ago. I know who Stonecoat is, and Selu the Corn Mother, and I know that thunder is the sound of the Little Men talking to each other across the hills.

My older brother and I ran around the house in breech clouts and moccasins until we were five or six years old. About the time we were old enough to start school, my mother put her foot down and told my dad, "I don't give a damn how practical it is, or how you grew up; we are not raising a pack of heathens."

It takes more than having an Indian mother to make you an Indian, Boston -- just as it would take more than having a father from Kenya to make Obama a Kenyan. You are what you're raised as....

And if your Cayuga blood is only on your mother's side, you aren't that much more Indian than I am anyway, genetically, speaking. My dad and I sat down one time and tried to sort it out from both sides. Eventually we guesstimated I was three eighths Indian, and that was only the acknowledged ancestry. Like a lot of people from Oklahoma, Missouri and thereabouts, many of my ancestors for generations back probably had some Indian blood in them.

As a footnote: fifty years ago, my father told me, "son, the wheel always turns. When you're a grown man and have children of your own, people will be bragging about being Indians."

Another footnote: when I was a young child in the fifties, a couple of the bars in the old part of town still had faded signs on their doors that read, 'no minors or Indians allowed.'

 

Hey, the program on TV was crap, I read all the books on the shelves, and there's little to do on the lake after 6 o'clock ...

I was just trying to get rid of boredom.

:!:

 

ANYONE with a grain of native genes KNOWS that they are NOT Indians.

Indians are from India, and American people (the native ones, not the immigrants, like Europeans for example) are deeply offended by being called "Indians".

You may say whatever you want, but one thing I do agree with boston completely. It is time to rectify the errors of the past by recognising the facts and remove the rooted misconceptions.

Think of it like this: history is a science ( a social one, but a science nevertheless). So, just as we would correct our books of chemistry ( dunno about usanians though... ) when the science discovers something that renders old knowledge invalid, we should do the same with history, language and other aspects of social sciences.

That is how I read boston's first email anyway. And find it on the spot. It is time that we all look at the facts and call the things ( and the people) with their real names. See them as they actually are. Free from our ideologies.

Wardd summed it up very nicely:

"history is a funny thing, it's not what you think it is even if you're there making it

it will affect people down the road in ways that can't be foreseen

the american revolution didn't affect other people much at the time but but within a hundred years it had a great affect on the world"

See, the errors tend to stick around and with time become the "truth" even if we know they are actually not.

It's a "custom", or a "habit" to call usanians "americans", or Apachis, or Cayugas "Indians".

But, deep down we all know neither is correct.

Do we say "Europeans" instead of "Germans"?

No.

So to call usanians "americans" is kind of arrogance that borders with imperialistic prepotence.

And calling Siouxes, Cayugas, Aymara, Nahuatl , Mapuche and every other REAL Americans, "Indians" is just a white man's patronising way of saying: "I am better than you."

Because we all know that REAL Americans are NOT Indians, yet "it's a custom"... "the whole world calls them Indians, who the frack am I to change that.." and similar poor and flimsy excuses to keep permeating the obvious error. Blatant lie that after 500 years of incessant repeating has become a "regular" word, but fortunately never accepted by people who we call "Indians", instead of calling them by their real names.

It's not all that difficult to change the errors. You ( collective) just have to say "I want to do do the right thing. I am not afraid of the facts. I welcome them." and the rest is simple.

Removing these misconceptions and errors from our vocabulary will help the world peace more than all the stupid religions of the world together.

After all, religions are the main instigators of all the wars and suffering the humanity has experienced to date.

Science, on the other hand, liberates.

 

I was not aware it was a contest but if it is then once again its an easy one, Firstly my mother is 100% Native American and my father was mostly English. My folks were very leery of being in a mixed marriage in a day when beaches were still restricted. I remember clearly my mother being harassed on several occasions to the point were we packed up and went elsewhere. My grandmother on my fathers side never was never quite comfortable with it and I think that might be partly because of some mixed blood on that side of the family as well. My father mentioned his side of the family having its share of "problems" in the past with having Native Americans in the family. So I think its fair to say I'm at least half if not more but how much more is unknown until I get a genealogy done. Which is something I've been meaning to do.

if its a mater of percentages which it isn't then its a contest that is pretty well lame if you ask me. I cant even think of a tribe that demands 100% blood to claim membership although there likely is one or two. Its simply not the way the native peoples thought of it.

you might read The Education Of Little Tree in order to gain a better understanding of why my parents tried to protect me from the ways of the world by marginalizing my heritage until I was old enough to understand why some people seem to take issue with it

like now

cheers
B

 

You've got that wrong. Your tom-tom must have a hole in it. My father, his father, his father's father, his father's father's father, his father's father's father's father, his father's father's father's father's father, his father's father's father's father's father's father, his father's father's father's father's father's father's father, his father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father, his father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father were all born in America. When those previously referred to as Indians arrived, there were according to some hurriedly hushed evidence that Causasian looking people were here to confront them.

Not all Americans are USAnians, but all USAnians are Americans, just as not all Europeans are Germans, but all Germans are Europeans and all Chileans are Americans, but not all Americans are Chileans.

True, Indian was the wrong word when applied to the natives found by the early European explorers, but it stuck. I bet you still use the term Indio in your common speech in Chile, where it has very derogatory connotations. Here we tend to think as brain-washed children of the 50's and 60's, of Tonto or Mingo(2 fictional characters), Cochise, Geronimo or Osceola with respect for their great courage and military skill. Your perception of our perceptions is very negative, inaccurate and narrow-minded.

Finally, we are not imperialistic. Even when we win we leave. We went some places we shouldn't have, usually under democrat administrations. Usually it took a republican to extract us.