What Do We Think About Climate Change

Now that sounds familiar........if a little hasty! You won't get anywhere if your hasty!!

 

Thomas,

DDT has very similar effects as pyrethrins and pyrethroids, both of which remain in use to this day. As mentioned in the articles I cited, thinning of egg shells has many different causes. In at least three of the articles turned up in the Google search you suggested, high serum mercury levels were also present. This is also known to cause egg shell thinning, but has nothing to do with DDT exposure. No attempt was made (or could be made?) to factor this out. If DDT is so bad, and pyrethrins and pyrethroids so similar and still widely used, then why have raptor birds recovered so well? What about the carefully controlled feeding experiments that showed DDT didn't cause egg shell thinning? Don't they count? Could it be (as suggested in the articles I cited ) that many of the original conclusions are suspect? Trying to arrive at a conclusion as to what is causing a problem like egg shell thinning in wild birds has to be a very daunting task as there are so many confounding factors, not the least of which is other industrial pollutants like mercury. I'd personally put a lot more stock in a controlled feeding experiment where all the animal's serum levels can be controlled.

The environmental movement has a long history of using largely discredited "Extrapolated LD-50" type measurements to arrive at 'safe' and 'toxic' serum levels. The first article you posted on this subtopic were ALL extrapolated LD-50 measurements. Read it and see for your self. These are FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED methods and can't be trusted to give anything like an accurate estimate of what is a safe exposure level and what is not. The LD-50 for pure water (for an adult human) is something like a couple of gallons (or about 75 g/Kg) and we absolutely KNOW that pure water can be safely imbibed at levels 1/100 this level every day for the rest of your life! Every substance has a toxic threshold; extrapolated LD-50 measurements ignore this fact.

And none of these earlier environmental studies seem to take into account the sheer tragic numbers of these animals that 'sport' shooters (used to) slaughter. I think at the time it was happening it was just not a well-known fact. Many western states had certain 'gather points' where thousands of raptors of different species used to congregate. The so-called 'sport' hunters loved these places and would sit there and shoot these birds down all day. Certain government bounties probably did a lot to foster a hatred of these birds as pests, too.

The truth is their numbers were already on the rebound years before DDT was ever banned (largely due to changing attitudes of the sport shooters) begging the question once again of how DDT could have been the cause of their decline in the first place.

Jimbo

 

Might I suggest going here - http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html to download "hour 2" for Aug 23, 2008" featuring - - - M. David Stirling, - VP, Pacific Legal Foundation. . . . and Author is being interviewed and knows someone (aside from "Pharlap" the Australian race horse) who regularly took DDT at his lectures) all good fun stuff on bureaucracy and others making rash decisions to "save us from ourselves".....

Matthew Simmons
Book Information

 

"Green Gone Wild"... yes the DDT thing was new to me!

I believe in climate change this year.... its flippin freezing down here!

 

Ahhhh get over it Heinz, that is normal Victorian weather.....

 

Inadequate reporting of the consequences of the DDT ban

http://www.reason.com/news/show/34315.html

http://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2004/04/ddt-is-actually-good.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/m...7016000&en=4ebf5b1fab869680&ei=5007&partner=X

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/06/hey-theyre-only-africans.html

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2008/04/bureaucracy-that-will-kill-us-by.html

What a pity that the world is no longer warming!!

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2008/08/perfect-storm.html

 

bout time Perz ,,,,,hiyas Beanzy,,,,i cant believe its changing,,,,i heard bout 12' snow drifts here in texas a few years ago,,,hahahaha

 

Bollocks...

 

Fosty oil! LOL

 

doesnt gas burn better the colder it is?

 

I just found out about an LNG system for cars that delivers liquid hydrocarbon to the cylinder. They claim more power and 10% better economy than petrol, its normally the other way around with LNG! It achieves a sort of chemical super charging delivering colder, denser, more heavily fuel laden air to the cylinder. Considering that LNG is 50c to 70c a litre and we have heaps of it down here thats a good thing!

So anyway I'd say yes... you are prolly right but I dunno for sure!

Cheers
Mbz

 

Climate Change

Climate change is inevitable, and continual..........not my opinion, but fact born out by geologic history. This part of Virginia used to be a shallow tropical sea twenty million years ago; dig down twenty feet and you find Miocene Period fossils........ can anyone say that THAT period of global warming was caused by man?

I won't deny that man made gases from factories and vehicles may contribute to SOME warming, but can anyone define how many undersea vents releasing methane gas are on the sea floor? No, they all haven't been discovered yet.

Can anyone give a solid number of how many CFS of these gases are vented yearly? Do these gases vent at a steady rate, or are these rates cyclical, similar to seismic activity?

Can anyone accurately predict when the next volcano will erupt, and give a definitive number on how many CFS of gas it will expel? How many cubic yards of debris will it blow into the atmosphere?

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the proportion of man made "hot house gases" are about as significant as a hiccup in a hurricane, compared to what our planet naturally belches and farts out on a daily basis.

Ok, let's say that global warming is real, that the ice caps are melting, and the ocean levels are rising..........so what? We can't change the natural cycles of nature, despite what the huckster politicians and the quasi-governmental "Green" groups would like for us to believe.

Rising sea levels will make coastal cities become new Venice-like cities. More territorial shallow waters will mean more fishing grounds, and newly formed coast lines will be the source of money, making new communities and resort areas. Adaptation is man's best quality.

I hear about the polar bears losing their ice; they'll go extinct. Well, Darwin's theory will probably allow the polar bears to evolve, and adapt, and become more like brown bears AGAIN.........like they were before turning white, and getting longer necks.

Newly formed coast lines, new cruising areas, new fishing grounds, lower fuel bills for home heating, less money expended on snow plowing roads to keep them open.........I see opportunity, not doom. Mother Earth breathes, farts, and lives..........nothing stays in a static condition for long. Change and adapt is what we can do, and the fear mongering created by the doom and gloom segment of society is merely a carney sham to shake us down for more money.

The next thing you know, we'll being seeing "Vince", from the Sham Wow advertisements, on television, hustling us for some global warming scam.

http://www.shamwow.com

The next thing will be "Vince for President".........."I'll bring you change, and guarantee the Whitehouse windows will be cleaner than ever!"

Bottom line: whatever is happening, will happen. We will adapt. The Peri Reis map of 1513 shows that mankind knew of the Antarctic land mass.........and mapped it..........when there was no ice covering of Antarctica. Hhhmmm.........must have been really warm during mankind's inhabitation of the earth millenia ago.
Do you suppose the political hustlers back then were pandering to the global cooling crowd?

 

i think we ALL agree MAN is not the cause of the "normal" warming or cooling,,,,but thats "NORMAL",,,but,,,,can anyone give what the "normal" #'s are for a "natural" warming?,, and just because its happened before,, without OUR help,,,does that mean its happening this time for the same reason? for all we know some big@ss comet might have caused the last warming,,,,,,NO ONE knows.so unless you KNOW,, and can show PROOF of "why" them last coolings and warmings have happened,,, then ya all just p!ssing in the wind.
and having a history of "millions" of years,,,,and something happens once or twice,,,that makes it "natural" all of a sudden?,,, most kids have lied to their parents a "few" times in their lives,,,,so should the parents expect and do nothing about,, the next time their kid lies?

 

Jim an excellent analogy - My Lovely Lady was impressed, as her Doctoral thesis is heavily into using analogies as a teaching method.....

 

i aint smat nuff to say things the regular way,,, need to find ways of saying it not using words over 6 letters long,,hehe