What Do We Think About Climate Change

Effects? What effects are you referring to? Do you mean the 1C of warming we've experienced in 130 years? How do you know that's not natural variation? Warming periods of greater magnitude and rapidity have happened in the past, even within recorded history. Why should we believe that something anomalous is happening, so that we should go on a 'treasure hunt' for an anomalous cause?

Jimbo

 

More interesting and relevant reading:

False Alarm: The Atlantic conveyor belt hasn't slowed down after all

Jimbo

 

Shugabear, now we get into MY strong suit...
You said, "i am still concerned after all i have children". Tho I have a feeling that it would be senseless for me to go too far into this, permit me to shed a little light showing that your children are exactly why you should not go along with the warmers.
Forget science - Jimbo, Eddy, and William (Guillermo) have a handle on that so tight that I use what they posted here to educate others, locally and on other forums. Rock solid.
Now, let's say that GW is caused by man (anthropogenic is the word scientists like to use). Let's speculate that as members of the Western World, we decide that the footprint we have left on this planet is so nocent that we decide we are going to tax carbon emissions so highly that we reduce them by a percentage. Do the evil corporations eat that tax and everybody rides on bike-paths and takes time to smell the flowers on the way to their well-health check-ups mandated by the government? Smiles and healthy lungs all-around? No. The taxes are passed on and people use less of the product.
Well, healthy lungs maybe, because you will be pedaling as most will not be able to afford to buy a car. I have not put together numbers but if you make it more expensive to do business, everyone is poorer. You see this, right? If you are taxed more, you have fewer freedoms. If it is unprofitable for a coal-fired plant to operate because taxes put them out of existance, there are fewer options and everybody loses. Conversely, the more options, the more freedom, the more wealth. Yes, yes, you want your kids to have the same opportunities as you had growing up but not at the expense of GW. Is it too much to ask to keep it low-carbon AND profitable?
As it turns out, it is - and totally unneeded. There is a reason why the US has had a very successful 200 years, unparalleled, in fact. Beyond being lucky enough to have been settled by some persecuted Protestants (who believe that hard work is an end, in itself, to be rewarded by God) It is with the Constitution, pulled bit and piece from scores of other experiments deemed successful in the beginning of the US experience. It is Capitalism, insured (we thought) by the Constitution. Greed makes people do what is best for them. What is best for them, it turns out, is what is most efficient.
Then, we get a well intentioned person or group that decides that, let's say, auto paint can't have certain emissions as it cures. The technology doesn't exist to apply a paint that works as well as "the good stuff" still used on Japanese cars. We end up with Fords and GMs flaking paint and Toyotas happily not. Apply this concept to every aspect of American cars, in conjunction with Union members making three times the real salary of a Toyota worker and it's not difficult to see why you can get some idiots pointing out that American cars are "50 years behind" and fewer American cars are sold.
Enter China. They don't give a crap about emissions, pollutants, quality of life - just a drive to, one day, be the greatest nation on Earth. They are not going to stop emitting carbon, no matter what, and they make way more than we do! Also, every time they build a dam (which they were going to build anyway) They say they were able to cancel a few coal-fired plants and everybody cheers and rewards them for being so cutting edge green. (IMO, dams suck worse than almost anything, from an environmental perspective - especially a dam big enough to actually change the climate of Japan - check THAT one out!)
How long do you think it will take the Chinese to overwhelm the West on this unlevel playing field? Who's going to grow enough rice to feed their hoards - your children?
Look at the African continent. Havin' a bit of a hard time in most places there, warlords, AIDS, little or no effective government, surviving very much on the generousity of the West (GWBush spent more on African aid than all other presidents, BTW). What if we don't aid and trade with countries in Africa because we can't afford to? First, China moves in - they already are. But that's not the problem. The problem is that if these peoples go backwards, charcoal becomes ever more important for their survival. They will cut and coal every living thing - will that be good for the environment?
Russia? Shoot, they're ALREADY third world. I'm finding new glass fishing floats from the former USSR - A sure sign that your economy sucks is when it's cheaper to burn a beach and blow a ball than it is to buy a plastic one. People let leaks happen in gas and oil pipelines there - it just runs onto the tundra. They pick it up in buckets to cook their potatoes and heat their homes.
Is this the environment you envision for your kids? Don't you think dealing with the environment from a strong position would be better? Wouldn't it be good if no resources were allocated to bad science, especially in such a big way that economies are destroyed?
For your kid's sake - Stop the Cap and Trade forced march. Stop the GW scare. Read the fine print of the Congressional Budget Office's review of the Waxman-Markey ***** we are about to get; "The resource cost does not indicate the potential decrease in gross domestic product (GDP) that could result from the cap." REREAD. These (Waxman-Markey), the piece of **** Pelosi and "The One" ARE willing to destroy America and the rest of the West with this gambit. Are you with them? Your kids?

 

Well.. there's nothing more to say.. so let's burn up all whats rest of the rainforests, build new coalplants, fish our oceans dry and dumb the waste behind the schoolyards becouse it's profitable and what's profitable it's good for us... or is it?

 

Funny you should say, "dumb the waste behind the schoolyards..."
And, Rainforests ARE one of my pet peeves... Who are we to cut every tree within sight, then tell the poor people of Borneo or Brazil, "No, no, no! ?
Actually, I pointed out that the above was a condenced version (only conceivable by those with a little higher learning skills). Pollution and use are areas that do need to be taxed to incourage responsible use. The " tragedy of the commons" is also proof that not establishing ownership of vast swaths of ocean is dumb (There - had to fit in the correct use of the word, "dumb"). You, of the most "American" of European countries... sorry, ran out of time...

 

wats ron wit mi tybo.. Fingers working faster than my eyes following what they up to now..
There's nothing wrong warming the world up some .. but don't anyone dare to blame mother nature paying back and drowning costal areas and throwing us with cyclones

 

Noctilucent clouds

Watch the skies.

http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=3746

http://spaceweather.com/nlcs/gallery2009_page15.htm?PHPSESSID=t4ge29tk7u3h9c40sk3a8ini24

 

Thank-you. I've noticed "noctilucent clouds" but didn't have a name for them.
Good reading for our Australian friends in that first attachment; "...Meanwhile a remarkable drama has been unfolding in Australia, where the new Labor government has belatedly joined the "consensus'' bandwagon by introducing a bill for an emissions-curbing "cap and trade'' scheme, which would devastate Australia's economy, it being 80 per cent dependent on coal."
They may end up destroying the entirety of Western economies before saying "Oops!" My question may soon be, "Where can I and mine best observe from the sidelines the ensuing havoc?" Glad I have a house in Mexico but it may not be far enough away to avoid fallout if it gets really ugly. Prob'ly be a bunch of illegals (Gringos, this time) headin' south to the land of opportunity...

 

This kind of stuff is always amusing - AlGore's hometown just "bottomed" its coldest (this) day in history, I think it said, in 1877.
http://www.whnt.com/news/sns-ap-tn--recordcool,0,4032125.story

 

Is there anything they CAN'T do?
http://news.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?z=2&a=408912

 

It is not so much the inland surface temperature at pre dawn that is climatically significant as regards climate and weather it is the heat stored in the oceans that induce most climatic variation in the seasonal weather around the globe... I am not a climatologist, but carefully observe the weather and seasonally it is changing...

 

Yes but not in any unprecedented, alarming way. In fact, the network of ocean surface buoys show recent oceanic cooling.

The ocean temp trend has become the new poster child for AGW alarm precisely because the warming on the surface has gone missing in action; this undeniable fact has caused the alarmists to reach for new tactics. It's all just a political game in the end because, as I've repeatedly stated and proven, there's nothing at all alarming happening in the first place.

Jimbo

 

"I am not a climatologist, but carefully observe the weather and seasonally it is changing..." - I gotta go with the guy on this one!

 

Oh, shut up, you troublemaker!



Jimbo

 

Día Nacional de Galicia

Best wishes to Guillermo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Día_Nacional_de_Galicia