What did we don't understand that they did?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by valery gaulin, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. valery gaulin
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 102
    Likes: 0, Points: 16, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: Montréal

    valery gaulin Senior Member

    I want to know if somemone can explain me why in northern europe, ex: Netherland, they seam to be producing such amazing steel sailboat and in North America all the steel sailboat I see are pretty much crappy built and design.

    What did they understand that we did not in North America. Or is it the other way around?

    Are the coating technology today better for rust prevention on steel sailboat or is it still a continuing fight as it used to be?
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 6,035
    Likes: 121, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Rust in cars today is much less than decades ago, there must have been advances in the material and/or coatings.
     
  3. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 2,513
    Likes: 45, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    What are you talking about.
    How about an example?

    Is the same question you asked in another thread with less detail?

    I remember a thread about European Stainless Steel boats being more ecologically friendly because they were laser welded.

    What justification do you have for calling North American steel boats crappy built and designed?
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 18,398
    Likes: 366, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yeah, I have the same issue - grandiose, unsubstantiated suggestions about whatever. How can anyone that this seriously without some quantification.
     
  5. valery gaulin
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 102
    Likes: 0, Points: 16, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: Montréal

    valery gaulin Senior Member

    Just check the used steel sailboat market in America and you will see the difference. Not many choice and the one available are not that great looking. There might be for sure some good steel sailbaot in America but it is not very common.

    Stainless steel for a material is not a preferred choice for me.
     
  6. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,309
    Likes: 32, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Valery, you got yourself in hot water. Let me help you. There is not one Hollander who did not had to go on a boat, had a boat, designed a boat or had to take a ferry or was working on a boat. The are so many waterways in Holland that automatically that industry developed over the 1000 years with all kind of unique features. The Americans had to fly, because the distances are too great and thus they developed their aircraft industry like no other.
    I agree with you that Germany, Holland, Denmark etc have some very fine designs. The Americans think that only what comes out of America is the best and we have to live with it. Now we are really both in hot water. Bert
     
  7. valery gaulin
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 102
    Likes: 0, Points: 16, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: Montréal

    valery gaulin Senior Member

    @Bertku: Hahahaha I am with you on that one. "The Americans think that only what comes out of America is the best and we have to live with it"

    This probably will start a non constructive discussion.

    Mainly I would like to know how come they can keep up with the maintenance of steel construction sailbaot. Most of them are very well kept without a sign of problematic rust like the one we see in America.

    The resale value speak to it self! Check the price of a used steel sailboat in America. Very low and very hard to sell. They have a stingma thay steel is just a bouch of rust problem. They got that reputation for a reason. On the other hand in the northen Europe they dont seam to loose value because they are steel it is even the contrary. They seam to maintain their value.
     
  8. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 25, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 158

    Barry Senior Member

    http://www.linssenyachts.com/en/

    Several years ago we attended the Seattle Boat show and they had a Linssen steel boat for sale. Built in Holland to be sure
     
  9. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 2,513
    Likes: 45, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    No doubt we all are somewhat proud of whatever we know best.

    On the other hand, there are a group of people who think anything "foreign" are the best thing made. In spite of demonstrated higher costs for purchase, maintenence, and shorter life span. I'm thinking automotive now.

    To my mind, neither is likely to be correct in general.

    A vague unsupported general statement of your biased belief with no facts is no place to start a discussion others will accept - even if you happened to be right.

    This is a very Trump like attack.

    Put up or shut up. IMHO.
     
  10. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,370
    Likes: 181, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    America is great because in the past we took the best people that the world had to offer. Our German engineers, our Dutch and Scandinavian boat builders and so on. We could not have achieved this without Europeans and others who came here seeking to live free from political oppression. We did make the mistake of allowing the very European politics from which we originally fled to infiltrate themselves into our culture, thus squandering much of the freedoms with which we have heretofore been blessed, but we are working on that too by trying to get back to the founding principles of our founding fathers.

    My truck is of Japanese design but was built in Kentucky 11 years ago from parts from all over the free and not so free world. I have no desire to trade it in or sell it so don't ask.
     
  11. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 12,220
    Likes: 186, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    There is a market for commercial steel boats in the USA, that is very productive and profitable. In the recreational market, there are very few interested in steel boats. Therefore, the production is minimal. Aluminum is also replacing a lot of construction that was traditionally made in steel.
     
  12. valery gaulin
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 102
    Likes: 0, Points: 16, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: Montréal

    valery gaulin Senior Member

    I think what America master is the "BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK" concept. If they are able to put more people on the water because of it great.

    What America also master is marketing. Imagine America was able to convince the world that they need to drink a COKE. This is amazing.

    But now back on track with my topic. It seams that northern europe favor steel as a boat building material and that there is alot mor small yard building boats than in America. Maybe this is the reason why they favor steel. But how do they keep ot in such nice shape. I doupt that they contantly are fixing rust and stain. Most of their steel pleasure boat are in inpecable shape.

    What is their secret???
     
  13. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 5,361
    Likes: 233, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 3380
    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Well, even if perhaps less known than their European counterparts, there are some IMO pretty fine steel yacht builders in the US. For example:
    http://www.trinityyachts.com/
    http://northwestyachts.com/
    http://citadelyachts.com/
    http://www.capescottyachts.com/
    http://www.beringyachts.com/
    http://striker-yacht.com/
    http://www.customsteelboats.com/

    and, if you are looking for custom plans, there are:
    http://www.kastenmarine.com/index.htm
    http://www.perryboat.com/

    I am pretty sure that even PAR has a couple of steel designs kept somewhere in the drawer. ;)

    Cheers
     
  14. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 1,884
    Likes: 67, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 739
    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    This is only a guess, with little to back it up. But I think history and geopolitics has a lot more to do with this type of thing than we normally think.

    In the Americas wood was cheap, plentiful and high quality, and has generally remained so even up to today. While wood in Scandinavia even prior to modern times was expensive, hard to acquire, difficult to store, etc.

    So going back a hundred years American pleasure boats could quite easily be built from wood of any number of species just as they are today. We have so much good quality wood that depending on where you are building the boat has a lot to do with what wood you will choose to build out of. For us wood was a natural building material until the advent of fiberglass justbecause it was so plentiful. In Scandinavia however because wood was scarce as soon a steel production was capable please boats started being built in it, for cost and accessibility reasons.

    Over the years of course the US switched to fiberglass, which is a pretty reasonable alternative to wood. Meaning wood scantlings can be pretty much kept the same when building in fiberglass. But in N Europe where steel was already prevalent people had gotten used to the advantages of steel, and since boat buying is a very conservative undertaking have simply stuck with it.
     

  15. valery gaulin
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 102
    Likes: 0, Points: 16, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: Montréal

    valery gaulin Senior Member

    @Stumble: Your explanation makes alot of sense. thank you
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.