What code? 35m SWATH RV

Discussion in 'Class Societies' started by DDALMAU, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Murat124
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -8
    Location: İstanbul

    Murat124 Junior Member

    All flag administrations are UK or others' statuatory rules are subjected to IMO Conventions and Codes.

    As you seen in the code text;

    IMO Maritime Safety Committee invites all flag states to apply the standarts of the SPS code as far as practible and reasonable for such ships which carries special persons onboard to which SOLAS does not apply.

    RESEARCH VESSEL is a SPECIAL PURPOSE VESSEL ( NOT TANKER, NOT PASSENGER SHIP ,NOT CARGO SHIP)
    EVEN IF ITS TONNAGE NOT MORE THAN 500 GRT
    IMO RECOMMENDS FLAG STATES TO APPLY THIS CODE AS FAR AS PRACTIBLE
    NUMBER OF SPECIAL PERSONS MORE THAN 12 ( RESEARCHERS) ON BOARD GETS
    DECISION STRONGER ON APPLICATION OF THIS CODE.
    HOWEVER NUMBER OF SPECIAL PERSONS BOARD EQUAL TO OR LESS THAN 12
    VESSEL COULD BE EVALUATED WITHIN THE RULES OF CARGO VESSELS
     
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,369, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    One must not assume "i think...".

    It is never as straight forward as this. Since there may well be other elements in the SOR that dictate otherwise, such as the stability requirements etc. Since SOLAS II-1 Regulation 4, previously 25-1, provides the designer/builder with a number of options relating to special ship types, or simply that "..‘"..designed with accommodation and bridge ********* in the forward part of the vessel and an exposed cargo deck in the after part for the handling of cargo at sea..".." of the code may not be applicable, as the accommodation is aft and deck area of cargo up fwd, as an exmaple. Unless you know which 35m vessel it is, or have read the SOR of the 35m Swath vessel how do you know?
     
  3. Murat124
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -8
    Location: İstanbul

    Murat124 Junior Member



    2.2 The subdivision and damage stability of special purpose ships should in general be in accordance with SOLAS chapter II-1 where the ship is considered a passenger ship, and special personnel are considered passengers, with an R-value calculated in accordance with SOLAS
    regulation II-1/6.2.3 as follows:

    .2 where the ship is certified to carry not more than 60 persons, the R-value is assigned as 0.8R; and

    2.3 For special purpose ships to which 2.2.1 applies, the requirements of SOLAS
    regulations II-1/8 and II-1/8-1 and of SOLAS chapter II-1, parts B-2, B-3 and B-4 should be
    applied as though the ship is a passenger ship and the special personnel are passengers.
    However, SOLAS regulations II-1/14 and II-1/18 are not applicable.

    2.4 For special purpose ships to which 2.2.2 or 2.2.3 applies, except as provided in 2.5, the
    provisions of SOLAS chapter II-1, parts B-2, B-3 and B-4 should be applied as though the ship is
    a cargo ship and the special personnel are crew. However, SOLAS regulations II-1/8 and II-1/8-
    1 need not be applied and SOLAS regulations II-1/14 and II-1/18 are not applicable.
    2.5 All special purpose ships should comply with SOLAS regulations II-1/9, II-1/13, II-1/19,
    II-1/20, II-1/21 and II-1/35-1, as though the ship is a passenger ship.

    ".designed with accommodation and bridge ********* in the forward part of the vessel and an exposed cargo deck in the after part for the handling of cargo at sea.."

    Can notbe understood

    what do you mean
    is there any rule in the Code all SPS have got deckhouses for accomodation in front of the hull :))
     
  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,369, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    That's the point. Rules are rules, that's the easy part..but what is the vessel design to satisfy?...Do you know the vessel and it's SOR, if not, how do you know which set of rules have been applied - there are many?
     
  5. Murat124
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -8
    Location: İstanbul

    Murat124 Junior Member

    This decision has not been taken for indicating which set of rules have been applied. This is a basic discussion to indicate what kind of vessel it would be
    This made with ships length > 24 m if Number of passengers researchers > 12
    it must be evaluated special purpose ship categoria. Same as you did it.
    Each parts of the code will be tested in the design and applied as far as practible

    if any vessel subjected to SPS code Owner will have to take special class notation for this type vessel ( Mandatory ) This issue is not in owners option.
    Other matters, class notation for damage stability or other requirements will
    be tested on the design if applicable physically due to vessel's size and particulars, other requirements will become mandatory for owner or not.

    you can set an analogy with passenger ship
    What is SOLAS description of a passenger ship??

    >24 m more than 12 passengers
    do you need any design document or SOR to make this discussion???
    What is SOLAS description of Special Purpose Ship
    > 24 m more than 12 special persons
     
  6. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,369, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    The OP asks:

    A specific vessel has been given and the questions asked... what is the statuary code that has been applied?. This requires knowledge of the vessel, no one here has demonstrated such, thus it is pure speculation.

    Or

    the other side of the questions could be...what regulatory codes could be applied....but that is a totally different question.

    Not withstanding the above..unless you personally know if the 'passengers' have received special training with regards to the layout of the the vessel, how to muster, where the emergency systems are how to operate them, acquired sufficient sea-going service etc and maintain their certificate STCW etc...unless you know this is part of their function, other than reading charts and ultrasound eqpt on board etc...you cannot apply the SPS code. Thus without a working knowledge of the SOR of any vessel..it is just pure speculation.
     
  7. Murat124
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -8
    Location: İstanbul

    Murat124 Junior Member

    This is a wrong interpretation of the code. You should read it again. There may be a misunderstanding but you should not name it as "pure speculation"
    try to understand at first.
    are you checking something other than passengers capacity and general particulars while you were indicating that any vessel complies with SOLAS description of Passenger Vessel ??
     
  8. gwboats
    Joined: Sep 2005
    Posts: 110
    Likes: 13, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 77
    Location: UK

    gwboats Naval Architect

  9. Murat124
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -8
    Location: İstanbul

    Murat124 Junior Member

    ok MCA Guidance Note interprets the situation just as I did

    Ad Hoc should read this document. I understood that English Naval Architects can not interpret IMO Codes for implication without MCA guidance ( it is usual to apply flag state rules but sometimes it is needed to apply directly to international regulations if flag state can not provide guidance or way of implications for IMO reg codes etc)
     
  10. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,369, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    All you have demonstrated is that you can read, little else.

    Do you understand what an SOR is...do you understand how to design a boat to an SOR...do you understand how the SOR influences the statutory rules that are applied?

    From you responses above the answer is no. Since all you are demonstrating is that you know of said rules and may be you have read them. But fail to understand how they are applied to a design of a vessel with a particular function role that is outlined in an SOR.

    Oh...and there you are displaying your myopic ignorance, and tarring every NA in the UK with the same myopic brush you paint with :eek:
     
  11. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,369, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Murat124

    I’m curious, you seem to have super human x-ray vision where you can just simply look at a boat and claim to know what statutory rules are being applied. Amazing!!

    So, what about this Swath..what rules have been applied here?

    Swath.jpg
     
  12. Murat124
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -8
    Location: İstanbul

    Murat124 Junior Member

    This is childish reaction, not for a professional. if you have got another alternative ideas you can
    write here by supporting documents and disscuss matter just like a professional.
    I have put all necessary arguments on the table.

    if you want to discuss the matter you can read code or related MCA guidance notes.
    if you have not got sufficient knowledge or practical experience for interpretating all these
    you can consult with a senior Naval Architect or an experienced MCA surveyor.
     
  13. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,369, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Aahh…so you’re suggesting you have provided all the supporting documents? Oh really interesting. Let’s review this again.

    The OP ask’s:

    And your reply is:

    Hmmm….can’t see any supporting documents there. Ok, what about here:

    Hmmm..no supporting documents here too, strange.!! Nor…here…or here…etc etc, er, nope, none there either!

    I thought you provided evidence?....Aahh..i see, you are providing “arguments”, but not “supporting documents”.

    Well…either you have the evidence (eg a copy of) of the actual boat's P.O. (Permit to Operate by the Flag State) or least its Specification that you claim as supporting documents to state categorically as evidence of the actual Statutory rules that she is complying with, or you don’t. Which is it? :confused:

    All you have provided is evidence that you know how to cut and paste from rules, nothing else. Anyone can do that.

    Perhaps that is why you can’t provide supporting documents for the statutory rules of the vessel I pictured above too, because like the OP’s question/vessel at hand you don’t have it. And thus all you are doing is simply speculating/guessing for some unknown reason yet wish to subvert this speculation as fact and you're quoting a excerpts from a rules and using these quotes as your ‘supporting documents’?? Hmmm :eek:

    Ahh...you mean like this:

    That is a delightfully unprofessional assertion to lay at all the NAs in the UK…Or is that just speculation too?
     
  14. Murat124
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -8
    Location: İstanbul

    Murat124 Junior Member

    Try to develope yourself, and keep in mind there may be some operational criterias for evaluation of special purpose ships.
    Read and think over mr Consultant

    Read it Mr Consultant

    .http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mgn390.pdf
     

  15. BMcF
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 1,085
    Likes: 97, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 361
    Location: Maryland

    BMcF Senior Member

    What this tread needs, in my humble opinion, is input from someone who has a lot of experience designing various sizes of SWATH vessels for a range of different applications...vessels that have actually been built and placed in service. That's what I think.


    :cool:
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.