What amazing unmanned small boat have you seen?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by sun, Mar 26, 2022.

  1. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    This should not be interpreted as a poke at any of the comments I've read on this site. The members of Boatdesign are refreshingly open eyed about these issues.
     
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  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think there is too much pseudo-science and politics driving energy related policies. One of my pet peeves is the "renewable energy" claims. One of the axioms in science is that energy can not be created or destroyed, only transformed. Therefore, it can not be renewed.
     
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  3. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Gonzo, I am left wondering if there is such a thing as "energy" policies, or is at least some of it correctly "fuel" policies, haha?

    My guess is the public's "energy" misunderstanding came about when the oil and coal companies were renamed as "energy" companies, at a time many years ago when they were more correctly "fuel" companies. So I think it's easy to make the distinction, if the terminology changes to "renewable fuels" or maybe "Renewable Power", so as to be distinguished from depletable fuels?

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Myself don't think it possible to be 100% green or to have zero emissions, in any kind of Transportation, if cradle-to-grave is considered. Perhaps a fuel cell powered aircraft might be an improvement on carbon footprint, at the expense of having a slow, propeller-driven, aircraft. A cradle-to-grave calculation would have to be done for a fair comparison. I don't see any of that happening, haha!

     
  5. sun
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    sun Junior Member

    Energy is not a problem. Better use of energy is a problem.That's why we need better design to use energy.
     
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  6. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

  7. BlueBell
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    BlueBell . . . . .

    What amazing unmanned small boat have you seen?

    Not sure it's amazing, or "small" and I've never actually seen it... but I like it.
     
  8. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    My laser righting itself after a capsize and sail off down river without me..
     
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  9. sun
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    sun Junior Member

    Where's the photograph of the laser?
     
  10. sun
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    sun Junior Member

    How could anyone keep from liking it?
     
  11. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    A sub owner might not like it.
     
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  12. mitchgrunes
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    mitchgrunes Senior Member

    But a pirate or vandal would absolutely love that autonomous submarine killer. Imagine what you could do with a captured vessel!

    Modify it to do something useful or just plain "fun" to the pirate - like approach our own vessels, with an attached bomb, or become a hazard to navigation. Or turn it into your own private fishing or transportation vessel. Modification could be as simple as re-orienting radar antenna, and providing a fake GPS signal, or a lot more sophisticated.

    Strip it for parts. Sounds like it has a lot of potentially useful and valuable sellable stuff, as well as raw materials. Or just steal the diesel fuel. What a great project for a bunch of rowdy school kids.

    Would it even violate international law to pirate, vandalize, repurpose or destroy an unmanned vessel?

    China has some very good engineers and hackers. I wouldn't bet against them taking control of our autonomous vessels, remotely or in person. And they aren't unique. Did no one watch Battlestar Galactica?

    Am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
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  13. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Seems to me that outright destruction of surface autonomous vessels would be hard to prevent, for those like China that might want to do so, and have enough resources to do it.

    As far as pirates, you can make the vessel prickly enough with various kinds of isolated design booby traps at different stepped levels (even to the point of a poison pill), so that it wouldn't be worth the trouble to try to salvage it. Maybe something like an electrically charged hull that shocks, and/or detects boarding and sends signals (if even needed), by a separate independent of web system. Or the most valuable components could be autonomously destroyed or rendered useless by booby traps based on non- web systems upon attempted disassembly- for anyone without a mechanical or other method based key. Apple tiles carefully hidden and scattered throughout various valuable components might allow for tracking, assuming there's no easy/ cheap way to detect them, haha?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
  14. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member


  15. mitchgrunes
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    mitchgrunes Senior Member

    Booby trapping goes outside the "unarmed" criteria.

    Also, if you were a mechanic asked to repair these boats legitimately, would you want to work on a booby trapped boat? Too easy to make a mistake.

    And, if a booby trap hurt someone, they and their friends would be motivated to add their own booby traps, or mess your stuff up further.

    You also need to look at the costs of sabotage vs the cost of preventing it. E.g., a simple cloth cover costing a few dollars can stop cameras. A simple wrap that goes around the boat, including the bottom, can stop submarine hunting. If they are GPS guided, a cheap signal jammer, or a faux-GPS signal (or an amplified GPS signal repeater, which messes up calculated positions because it comes from the wrong position, with a time delay, and overpowers the real signal) can probably be made very cheaply. There are obvious expensive ways to attack GPS jammers and faux-GPS signals, but they aren't cheap. Again, cheap foil blankets or wire nets can block antennas.

    It's a little like fighting guerilla warfare or terrorism using conventional forces. In the long run, it's nearly difficult and expensive for the conventional forces to win. Of course, in that case, the guerillas or terrorists have to have people willing to sacrifice themselves for a cause, but that might not be needed to fight autonomous unarmed boats. Even if you have nearby fighter aircraft or chase boats to go after the saboteurs, they could do all the bad stuff from cheap airborne drones - so all they would destroy would be the drones. It's bad enough to fight off drones from manned vessels. But from unmanned unarmed vessels?

    Plus, attacking a manned vessel is an act of war, which opponents may hesitate to do. But maybe not attacking an unmanned vessel. That's maybe just a fun prank, something a bright child could do.

    In other words, I think these things, especially if they have military purposes, would have to fight an economically unbalanced battle, that can't be won. That hasn't stopped contractors from developing and selling expensive autonomous boats to the government, because funding was made available, but I think it was a bad decision by the government sponsors.

    Mind you, there are obvious applications for small cheap stealthy autonomous vessels. Like mapping bottom topography, looking for clear channels, setting mines, reconnaissance, remote sniper work, etc. Maybe they could look for schools of fish, or monitor water pollution. But that submarine hunter isn't cheap, and it looks way too easy to detect and mess up.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
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