What about Navy's Stealth Destroyer - the Zumwalt

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by El_Guero, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,268
    Likes: 195, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 758
    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Has this ship any utility, except showing muscles and making money for the builders? Against terrorists, no. Against pirates, there are better ships for that. For protecting the coasts, there are better suited boats. Are the Russian or the Chinese a threat for the USA? no, they are a bit more cautious and do not adventure in wars (let's admire the intelligence of Putin in the Syrian affair...I'm not a fan of Putin but he is clever)
    So in fact suh a boat is totally useless in the actual, and close futur state of the military equilibrium of the world.
    Furthemore, stealth technology on surface ships is a total joke as boats are "slow", sitting on the water, dissipating a lot of heat, and so easy to follow by any plane or even satellite...and so easy to sink with a few missiles. Jutland battle was in WW1.it's not possible now to hide a boat behind a smoke curtain, nor make it invisible to radars.

    Guero, ask yourself a question; why the richest countries per capita in the world, with the best level and quality of life, the best expectancy of life, the best education are the countries with the best welfare? I mean the Nordic countries, followed by some European countries.

    Nobody needs in Denmark, Holland or France to have to work 12 to 16 hours a day in 2 jobs for surviving. Nobody dies in these countries without medical care, nobody has a private insurance telling that the treatment that may save your life is too expensive, invoking the small prints. Nobody has his retirement funds stolen or disappeared. It's a philosophical question about society. That has a name; solidarity.

    The USA way seems to be highly inefficient;
    Denmark spends in health 11.20 of the National Income, the USA 17.90, but in Denmark 99 % of the population has a total health insurance, live longer and in better health than in the States. France spends 11.20 % in health with a universal health insurance, and the French live 6 years more than the American. They have 110000 centenaries for 60 millions habitants...
    Finland comparatively spends far less in education that the States and is known for having the best educational system in the world. Universities are excellent and free; 17 universities and 27 polytechnics for 5.4 million habitants.Almost 50% of the population has a university degree. No need to be deeply in debt with a bank for obtaining a degree...
    How do you explain that Cuba, a poor country, has a rather efficient universal health care? How do you explain that the life expectancy is practically the same (78 years) in Cuba and the USA?

    Guero, USA needs a very deep change; the country can't stay with the syndrome of the fortress, surrounded by ferocious enemies like the Stalinist USSR. Sorry to bother everybody, but sometimes there is need of a bit of general education.
     
  2. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    So true. The military industrial complex , with it powerful lobbyists, has convinced the American people that spending their hard earned money on military hardware is the most effective way to remain secure.

    These mega expensive projects like the zumwalt are a typical example.

    Has it worked ?
    Are you more secure? Is the future of your children more secure ?
     
  3. Leo Lazauskas
    Joined: Jan 2002
    Posts: 2,696
    Likes: 150, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2229
    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    Of course it has! Since 9/11, there have been roughly 20 deaths by terrorists
    and 364,000 gun-related homicides in the USA. ;)
     
  4. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Solidarity is a very special concept. If you always consider solidarity when formulating a response to societies challenges, you will find the correct solution.
     
  5. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 110, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    So? Again, what conflict? against who? against what?

    ANYONE that wants US dead.

    Are you more secure? Is the future of your children more secure ?

    The future is hard to see , but since folks have been killing each other since Humans began , a bit of insurance is easy to contemplate.

    Things like ,,dont eat the seed corn , and keep your weapons sharp , seems to be good advice for 50,000 years or so.

    Do we get our moneys worth from our military budget , perhaps ,were still sort of free,

    but we get far less from the REST of the insane gov and its endless spending which is dooming out future to Debt Slavery.

    A capitalist country needs capital to create jobs , even a lemonade stand has up front costs.

    If ALL goes to the gov for programs and debt , we are as doomed as the Soviet Socialist Utopia .
     
  6. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    The future in here !

    Vladimr Putin was just named most powerful leader.

    20 years ago polling revealed that america was the "white night" and that its civil society was universally admired.

    Recent pols tell us that the US is the number one threat to world security and that no one models their society after America.

    20 years.....how did this happen ?

    And this will greatly effect your children
     
  7. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 1,743
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2078
    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    First of all, when did something put out by a magazine which is avowedly 'conservative,' anti-Democratic Party and anti-Obama become accepted as gospel truth?

    Even assuming it's true, Putin is basically a dictator. Why do you think it's significant that Forbes considers him more powerful than the President of the United States - who's bound by a democratic system, a Constitution and a fractious Congress?

    Had Forbes been listing 'leader of the most powerful country in the world' instead, I don't think Putin would have secured top billing. As it is, Michael, this looks to me like just another excuse for you to dump on the US...
     
  8. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Disregard world opinion at your peril.

    Putins elevation to world leader has nothing to do with Obama...its all about hard power vs soft power.

    The US always reigned supreme because of it soft power.
    It is gone...replaced by military industrial complex diplomacy
     
  9. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 1,743
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2078
    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    Do you think the low number of terrorist-related deaths is somehow unrelated to the US government's efforts against terrorism?

    And why do you tie those two statistics together to begin with? Especially since most of the run-related deaths are either suicides or criminal-on-criminal killings, which don't effect the average citizen?

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I personally own somewhere north of two dozen guns. If the government confiscated every one of them, it wouldn't stop a single drive-by shooting in Los Angele. Which would seem to indicate that simply taking guns away from law-abiding citizens is not a solution to gun crime....
     
  10. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,035
    Likes: 549, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2040
    Location: Port Orchard, Washington, USA

    jehardiman Senior Member

    Thought this was a thread about ship design, not the social economic issues that have made the United States what it is today.

    The fact that the US was forced to be the arsenal of democracy, and pay for it, allowing other countries to rebuild their war shattered existence and then live protected behind a shield of dollars for a generation is something lost on a lot of people. No one scorns you like a debtor. Would that the US just have the interest of that debt paid back.
     
  11. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 1,743
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2078
    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    Again: Forbes is a magazine. When did it become the last word on anything, much less on world politics and the global balance of power? When it said something you wanted to hear, I suppose....

    Reality check: to quote Mao Tse Tsung, "political power grows from the barrel of a gun." Without military power backing up its so-called 'soft power,' the US would always have had relatively little of the latter.

    That doesn't mean military power is always the answer to everything; obviously it's not a cure-all. And I'm not too wild myself about the way the government is in bed with its military contractors. But let's stop spouting nonsense about how evil the very existence of US power of any sort is. Which seems to be your stance: you resent American military power. You resent American financial power. You resent the influence of American culture... Basically, you seem to resent anything and everything about the US. Maybe it's time you found another drum to bang on.
     
  12. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Sorry but you are detached from the opinion of your friends and allies. Pick up a copy of der spiegel, El Pais, Le Monde, the Financial Times ...and read

    This month you will read of the fury of European citizens concerning the theft of private information by the American Military Industrial Complex.

    These grave breaches of trust will not just go away. The situation has spun out of control so much that european securities officials no longer believe what their conterparts in th US are telling them, they are flying to moscow to interview the man.

    Whomever conceived and operated this program has comprimsed the next generation of americans.
     
  13. Leo Lazauskas
    Joined: Jan 2002
    Posts: 2,696
    Likes: 150, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2229
    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    I don't care whether it is or not. It's you and your government's problem.

    I find their juxtaposition amusing.

    I don't care what you own and what you do with your property.
     
  14. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 128, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member


    I expect all those countries routinely spy on the US... they just don't get outed because there is significantly less protection of open speech and a butt load more protection of secrecy. Funny though... I expect when the terrorist shizen hits the rotator the first place everyone goes to is US intel to help find out who did it and what hole they crawled into. No doubt we make mistakes... but that doesn't mean the rest of the world is pure as the driven snow. China steals so much technology from us it is ridiculous and then turns around buys up our debt with the profits of that theft. It looks like everyone wants a piece of the US pie, to profit from it or destroy it, seems like we should keep track of that to me... in self defense if nothing else.
     

  15. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. hardcoreducknut
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    4,979
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.