What about Navy's Stealth Destroyer - the Zumwalt

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by El_Guero, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Do you really think we'll get 2500 planes delivered for that $1 trillion? Maybe I'm getting old and cynical, but I doubt it. :)

    But I wasn't really complaining about the cost, anyway... I was simply observing that all modern hardware - including ships, planes, tanks and anything else you can think of, is becoming exponentially more expensive. That doesn't mean it isn't worth it; its capabilities are also expanding exponentially. So I don't think we need to worry too much about keeping our new ships stashed away because they're too expensive to risk breaking....

    But Wayne's comment wasn't totally far fetched; our military command increasingLY has to weigh the potential loss of expensive and hard to replace personnel and equipment against the value of specific tactical or strategic objectives. Such calculations have always been part of military planning, but I'd say they're becoming ever more important.
     
  2. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I dont know much about military stuff but traditionally big warships are sitting ducks. In order to defend this jumbo it must travel in a convoy of protective ships , submarines and aircraft. Its this fleet of protection that is eye watering expensive.

    Something tells me that the jumbo will only be effective against pirate pangas.

    Sophisticated navies will instantly eliminate it with stand off long range weapons.
     
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Anyhow, a big baby battle cruiser (which is what this really is) is not bad.

    But, the price?

    And like someone wrote, or thought, or inspired me to write, above:

    "This ship looks like something only a mother could love."

    ;)

    wayne
     
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    I don't think that would be easy .... Its guns outrange all other guns, even South Africa's beast.

    It has a huge load of missiles to fire.

    And like you mentioned, it will be in a wolf pack ....

    So, unless some primitive terrorists run into it with a boat full of explosives, I really think it is ahead of other Navy's for another 15 to 20 years.

    But, the price has led the Navy to order upgraded Arleigh Burkes ..... they will have the new guns (light version).

    And I gotta side with Troy, I doubt you will get 2,500 birds for that.

    Instead they will cost over run like CRAZY. Reduce the number of aircraft to around 300 or 400, and the price will be 400 to 500 million a copy ....

    And everyone else will buy Russian fighters .... except China, they are building one they borrowed from US ....
     
  5. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

  6. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    I do agree. WWII gave already the answer. These boats are sitting ducks, and the stealth argument makes me laugh.
    Even against pirate pangas it's not effective, a patrol boat and an helicopter will do a better job at a small fraction of the cost.

    The USA military industrial complex is reigning over the USA as predicted by Eisenhower 50 years ago. And we can ask always the same questions; how many schools, universities, hospitals, care for the elder, true security in the streets etc (the list is long...) won't be financed because of the cost of these pieces of junk? Who benefits of that? So the Chinese will finance it lending money by buying bonds?

    It's not ridiculous, it's deeply disgusting and totally amoral. Devilish in fact if we employ a Christian vocabulary.
     
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    OK, I am not in love with the military industrial complex.

    But, the soldiers and sailors do keep us alive and free.

    Onto the outrageous claim about cost - we spend 4 times more per student than we did in the 1970's, and we get a whole LOT LESS.

    I will have to blog on that and the following,

    We spend at least 4 times more for doctors, hospitals, etc.

    And we are not cutting elder care because of this or any other ship.

    We cut elder care to pay for welfare. Cutting welfare back to what it was before President Obama would balance the budget.

    http://************************/2013/09/25/charity-versus-welfare/
    http://************************/2013/09/24/1-3-trillion-dollars-on-welfare/

    America got expensive when we outsourced our wealth to Asia in the form of jobs .... certain sectors were protected, civilian government jobs, doctors, education, lawyers. And to a lessor degree technology professionals and some sales professionals.

    Wayne
     
  8. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Sure... A clever enemy could unleash a swarm of micro drones..blind the radar, overwhelm its defense system .then park in the ships air intakes and choke it to death.

    What is better...millions of small units or one gigantic trophy unit ?

    The lesson of Vo Nguyen Giap and his millions of army ants
     
  9. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

  10. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Painful lesson, and I hope we don't see it with this ship only a mother can love, but

    What about the ship itself?
     
  11. Grey Ghost
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    Grey Ghost Senior Member

    Source?
     
  12. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    The ship is a trophy intended to show power and intimidate. Just like the massive power of the NSA to capture every phone call and internet transmission. We are big, we are powerful we can do as we please

    The jumbo battleship certainly accomplishes this goal.
     
  13. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Dont know...i read it a long time ago when controversy first erupted. Google thermal signature battle ship..whatever its name is and you will find countless miltary type blogs that have clever engineers talking about it.
     
  14. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    So true, but how would you calm down the rogue nation states around the world, and keep the terrorists in line?

    Don't think I am for rampant aggression, I blog about the problems of fighting wars in 30 countries and not being public about what we are doing ....

    But, I am asking like a Naval Warfare Officer,

    I think it is expensive, too expensive. But, the Task of the US Navy is handled by a select group of men who believe that the SOR is fulfilled with this class of ship ....

    I think they would respond like what I wrote, or similar.

    Don't you?

    Also, on your heat problem, I know they are reducing it with filtering units, I think using cooling water - I think. But, they did NOT reduce it as much as the radar signiture.
     

  15. river runner
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    river runner baker

    Very unconventional bow. I'd like to see how it performs in heavy seas. Seems like it would be a bit of a submarine.
    This boat is supposed to be able to produce more electricity than previous ships, allowing it to use weapons like rail guns and lasers. They are looking to future weapons and not just conventional. A bit of a risk, but possibly one that will end up being a wise one in the long run.
     
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