Wharram Tiki wrecked in Thailand

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by sloopjb, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. propshaft
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    propshaft Junior Member

    Peter, problem could happen if ropes are not enough UV resistant.

    Sun is really hard here and plastic skin fittings from BLA become garbage in one year.
     
  2. Laughingcruiser

    Laughingcruiser Previous Member

    Laughingcruiser

    peterAustralia, there are some adults out there who still believe there is a tooth fairy; I feel you may be one of them.

    Every time RB opens his mouth it has the same unsettling effect as an air raid siren, instead of people running to the air raid shelters they instinctively clutch their wallets with both hands, or reach for their back pockets to make sure their wallet is still there.

    Trouble rains on those who are already wet and there is a lot out there on this guy, do your home work and for God’s sake don’t be so naïve, gullible dreamers are this shark’s bread and butter.
     
  3. warmat
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    warmat Junior Member

    Hi Peter,

    I am happy to answer you. Propshaft? well best left unsaid and unanswered.

    It is a valid question about the beam troughs Peter. The short answer is that I did not know at the time. When I uplifted the boat it was faired, undercoated and ready for final painting in the yards opinion. As far as the yard was concerned the hulls were ready for fitting the beams. They were going ahead to paint it and fit the hulls when I stopped work on it, even though I had paid for the final painting. Glad I did stop it because big chunks of the fairing came off when it arrived back in NZ.

    If I had been aware of this and other deficiencies which did not come to light until we started working on it in NZ I would have uplifted the hulls, left them in Thailand and advertised them outlining the deficiencies and sold them at a heavily discounted price to someone who had the patience to work on finishing the hulls themselves. It would have been cheaper for me to have started again from scratch.

    But, I did not think for one moment that those components that were completed would not have been built with the appropriate stengthening. But, I take responsibility for overlooking this. At that time I still had a smidgen of trust in ***** and I made some assumptions that the parts of the hull that had been completed...faired and painted were at least usuable. I misjudged it unfortunately.

    As to why Creed's boat came apart I can only speculate like everyone else. I asked ***** for a report on what failed so I may learn from it and ensure that I can take appropriate action to ensure that mine never suffers the same fate.

    I don't believe it was the sea conditions that caused the break up. They don't get conditions like we get in NZ and Aust along that part of the coast where it came ashore. There was no storm on that particular day and certainly nothing what we would call surf. I was in Bangkok at the time. I also called a friend of mine who lives by the marina and he was unaware of any storm. No doubt the weather office has a record of the conditions that day.

    ***** said it rolled around on the beach for a couple of days. Mmmm...it is interesting that a boat chandler just 100 meters from that bit of beach was unaware of the event until I told him. By all accounts it was picked up and transported to *****'s yard very promptly...and very quietly.

    I suspect that the mast did fall down when it beached (one of *****'s own staff said that) and I suspect that the beam lashings were loose and that this was also a contributing factor. But as I said I am only speculating. I had hoped that ***** would have been more forthright about what happened but the most he was say is that it got caught up in this mythical storm.
     
  4. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    peterAustralia Senior Member

    Well that is as clear as mud.

    When I get around to building my dream boat. And I do say when, not if. It will be in wood. That way things like stringers, beams, frames etc can all be seen easily and a nice easy assessment of their strength obtained.

    Be that in strip planking in epoxy (I know build hours are higher, but if built overseas where labour cost is less per hour this is less of an issue) or whether that be of plywood.

    thread seems to have degenerated into a he says this, he says that kind of thing....

    solution,,, me I am off to work .. and will but out of this thread.. will leave it to the rest of you..
    my naive, actually no. I was just trying to be objective. Going with the information on hand. I do not like generalisations.

    peter
     
  5. propshaft
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    propshaft Junior Member

    weather chart

    OK, but we have a weather chart showing area of low pressure causing strong winds and wave in the Gulf. Is this chart for day of accident (or day after)?

    If there are any doubts one can send inquiry to Thai Meteorological Department. Did they announced strom warning those days?

    So warmat would You please post TMD report saying that there was no storm? Or You prefer to keep posting unproven insinuations?
     

    Attached Files:

  6. sloopjb
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    sloopjb Junior Member

    Propshaft, Thai law demands that a boat must take Thai regisration after 6 months in Thai waters and that a Thai national must be registered as owner.

    ***** tels us in Warrens blog that she lost her anchor or her anchor rope broke, and then rolled on the beach for two days. Quite plausible.
    Peter also seems to believes
    "the anchor failed first, and then the boat got washed ashore, and only then did the mast and lashings fail. The idea that both happened independently must be a massive coincidence, and I feel that coincidences do not happen much in the real world."

    However another possiblity - simultaneously.
    The anchor line may have produced sufficient force to compromise the central mast supporting beam, whereby the forward and central crossbeams would experience a rotational force. This may have popped the crossbeam lashings and pin fastenings, brought down the mast and split the boat in two all in one cataclysmic reaction... something like this....
    5.jpg
     
  7. propshaft
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    propshaft Junior Member

    No, boat can be registered on Thai company name. So it can be easily registered on builder's company if it was required.

    1. It is anchor roller on the photo, not the crossbeam (just compare the photo of broken part with photo of assembled boat at yard).
    2. If the hulls have been separated in the sea, why do they stay together on the beach on such close distance???
    3. I agree that mast could fall down, but it is a consequence of lashings become loose in the surf. Stays and shrouds are never studied to resist such loads from hull.

    So Your assumption does not seem realistic.

    The fact is: boat was left unattended by owner and lost the anchor in storm. Leaving boat like this is 90% chance to loose it one day, whatever it is Tiki, Lagoon, Catana or any other brand. If You are trying to find builder's fault here... hm, it is a hard (or impossible) task.

    P.S. Seems like warmat has 'gone with the wind'... nothing to say about weather chart :D
     
  8. warmat
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    warmat Junior Member

    Propshaft,

    Maybe I didn't make it clear in my earlier post. I don't debate with anonoymous posters. So, for the record I will not be baited by any comments that you make. If you have a point of view and wish to ask me a question then identify yourself and ask sensible questions. Don't ask me to go to the Thai weather office to check on something I already know. That was a silly. Anyone who knows anything about weather charts can see looking at the one you provided that there certainly was no storm that day.
     
  9. Laughingcruiser

    Laughingcruiser Previous Member

    Propshaft, if the sister ship in New zealand is any indication of the boatbuilder's work ethic then clearly he IS at fault.

    This boat appears to have been slapped together by poorly supervised Thai laborers not qualified boatbuilding tradesmen. How do you explain things being 20mm out of square, c'mon of course the boat builder is at fault.

    To imply that a Catana or Lagoon would have been as vulerable in the same conditions as Creed's amateurish built mess is dillusional.

    It is interesting to note that James Wharram has listed this boatyard on his website entitled " Dodgy professional builders - a WARNING "

    "ya can hide the fire but what the hell are ya gonna do with the smoke"
     
  10. propshaft
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    propshaft Junior Member

    OK, now it is clear that You are new to weather charts :)

    Look at low pressure area and look at gradient of isobars south from this area. This is clear indication of strong winds that will normally cause waves. Breaking waves of SS 4 are likely to happen that day and it is well enough to loose the boat once anchor failed.

    Anyway good luck in building Your Tiki, hope to see it sailing in Thailand one day. Just pay more attention to the boat, not to entertaining 'builder's friends' in the blog.
     
  11. DaveJ
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    DaveJ Senior Member

    Just so i have my weather chart reading skills up to scrath, only one feather from top of the wind indicator means 5knots, 2 means 10kts????
     
  12. propshaft
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    propshaft Junior Member

    Dave, short one is 5, long is 10, triangle is 50kts.
     
  13. warmat
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    warmat Junior Member

    Tiki 38 breaking up on beach...

    I thought that readers of this forum may be interested in a comment made on my blog http://www.naturalhigh-adventures.com by a very experienced Wharram Tiki owner in Thailand.

    This person is the owner or five Wharram Tiki's including two T38's and two T30's on Phuket Island. I chartered one of the T30's a few years ago a week before the Tusnami. Just after arriving back in New Zealand I saw the T30 on the evening news as it was hit by the Tusnami wave and violently washed ashore.

    Now what was interesting is that it not only hit the shore at high speed riding on the face of the wave but it hit a jumble of broken concrete and steel girders. Somewhat more traumatic that drifting ashore on a sandy beach in a bit of a breeze.

    Interestingly unlike Creeds boat this Tiki boat did NOT break apart, and the beams stayed attached. It did suffer hull damage of course. If you would like to read about this go to my blog and have a look at the post. "Beam troughs...the unvarnished truth and evidence'" The comment is one of the last on that post.

    Warren Matthews
     
  14. raoul bianchett

    raoul bianchett Previous Member

    reply to Mr. Warren Mattheus

    i apologize for this post , that is slightly off topic .

    I tried to answer to some accusations in the blog of Mr. Warren Mattheus , but unfortunately my posts get constantly eliminated ;

    Recently Mr. Warren , "Warmat" , was afferming that all posts from Thailand , he researched , come from the same computer or from the fame factory ( mine , of course ) ;

    The problem is that in Thailand we don't have a fix IP address for ADSL ( this service is for sale , and we never purchased it - now i can see a reason why it could be better to have it done -) .

    So , everytime i connect , the router send another protocol and the IP varies everytime ;

    Unfortunately there is no way to perform any research or track anything ; this is what i discovered when i have been subject to anonymous posts .

    Just use google and search for FIX IP THAILAND ;

    So , to finish , Mr. Warren , claiming that he perform the research of the IP ...

    using his words " i will leave the reader the conclusions "

    Regards
     

  15. warmat
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    warmat Junior Member

    Just for the record

    *****, I have not deleted any of your posts or comments from my blog. The only ones that I have ever deleted were those one made by other persons that you requested that I delete earlier this year and for which I kindly obliged you.

    With regard to the IP addresses it is possible to pinpoint the location in Thailand (if you know how) and yours IP address has been constant.

    The only post that you have made in the last day is on the blog.

    Warren Matthews
     
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