Westlawn's future

Discussion in 'Education' started by DCockey, Nov 13, 2014.

  1. CDBarry
    Joined: Nov 2002
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    CDBarry Senior Member

    Work boats present some issues:

    Some of them are more heavily regulated than yachts and represent more risk to the public and thus require expertise beyond the level of yacht designers without any engineering training. For example an FV may have to meet 46 CFR 28.500 stability requirements. Many small aluminum vessels may have to meet NVIC 11-80, which requires some understanding of structures (including section modulus) or more sophisticated rules like DnV or Lloyds Special Service Craft which require even more engineering.

    Such craft also often have special equipment that requires engineering expertise like monster hydraulic systems, etc.

    Also, where does "workboat" end? (Though realistically speaking, I don't think Hornbeck or Moran would go to a yacht designer for an OSV or a harbor tug.)
     
  2. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    May I say, many yacht designers are a) not capable to design a workboat, say to produce stability booklet of 200-500 pages, etc. and b) would not touch it as it will create their reputation as 'but this guy is workboat designer!' Not so prestige and luxury, but - I would say - sometimes even more challenging. Not talking about social aspect - many 'workboats' save lives, provide security, transportation, etc. What America's Cup boats do? Toys for the rich? The responsibility and skill levels for yacht (even high-tech staff) and for ferry design are not comparable.

    So, we try to design all :)
     
  3. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    There was a time when I thought that it is easy to earn money by working for very rich people.
    Then I have painfully discovered that they are usually also very, very smart and very, very demanding. Getting that penny from them is a hell of a job. :D
     
  4. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes and they often don't want to make the final decision and formally confirm any intermediate stage. They feel they can change anything and time, even beam of boat in construction by 2 foot. This is just small change, isn't it?

    And yes, very few people are ready to pay for design of pleasure boat, especially for smaller ones. "Why drawings are so expensive? No, I don't want to order stability calculations, cut is from delivery list! Can't the yard just build boat from picture in magazine, by scaling it down from 130 to 60 foot? Would it still look sleek? Etc."

    Yacht dreamers are filtered out at concept invoice stage. That's it, it is a test. Another test is to ask them to put some requirements on paper. Just basic. If they cant do it, they don't yet know what they want...
     
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  5. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Agree, sure this means that they are able to feed the whole team from superyacht. But small yacht designers are usually on wife's account :)
     
  6. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    There are probably Professors of Used Car Salemanship too.
    To me it makes Westlawn sound like a giant con-job, an operation pretending to
    be something it isn't.
     
  7. rxcomposite
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    They are rich because they are smart. They can squeeze the talent out of you down to the very last drop because they know what you are capable of.

    On the other hand, I have worked for some not so smart ones. They are more interested in getting their egos stoked and pretend to be rulers of the world. Naturally, they being not so smart can squeeze out only 16 to 20% of their staff talent. They don't know what they want in the first place, so they pretend most of the time.
     
  8. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    so true
     
  9. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Regarding newly appointed 'professor', there is one fact. I noticed that at IBEX presentations of Gerr are almost never attended by naval architects with degree. To me, this is very clear indication of engineering level and professional reputation.
     
  10. BMcF
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    BMcF Senior Member

    To you, perhaps. Not to everyone though.
     
  11. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    I have worked with a lot of engineers, some of them NAs, who didn't know how to apply their knowledge in a practical way. Yeah, they could take tests and get degrees but design something that worked? There are engineers, and then there are real engineers, and some of those real engineers did not have degrees in engineering. But they had lots of practical experience and knew how to apply it. So your argument that holding a degree indicates a level of professionalism doesn't hold water.
     
  12. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Agree about practical knowledge. BUT does it mean that shaman can be called a professor?
     
  13. Keelboater
    Joined: Apr 2015
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    Keelboater Junior Member

    About 20 years ago, I found older hard copies of the Westlawn Yacht Design program at the town dump of all places! I do not mean that in a bad way, and the person who left them there made sure that an interested party would find them. So I took them home and began reading. Although it didn't compare to university standards, lets just say the price was right for the 80% of the course that was there. It remains one of the best finds I have ever come across!
     
  14. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    I don't know. I have always thought a prof was a phd, but from what I Have read here that isn't necessarily so
    Anyone can teach if they have the knowledge. What they call themselves may not be all that important. I have almost a 40 year history with Westlawn and they have never in the past touted themselves as anything more than a course in Yacht design. They have at times partnered with colleges but if a degree was offered it came from the college, not Westlawn, and you had to meet the colleges requirements. But they did accept some of the Westlawn course for credit.
     

  15. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    I don't think a PhD should be required.
    At a minimum I would expect a (true) professor of naval architecture
    and marine engineering to be eligible for a professional engineering
    body and, at some stage in their career, to have been able to qualify
    for professional idemnity insurance.
     
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