West Six10 for epoxy plug?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by AJG, May 22, 2023.

  1. AJG
    Joined: May 2023
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    Location: SE NC

    AJG Junior Member

    Hey guys, first post. My boat is only a year old but the trim tabs were rusting bad, and I thought I noticed some water leaking from the area. I decided to pull the tabs and found there was hardly any sealant used on the install of the tabs, and the holes were not countersunk before the screws were driven in (So lot's of chipping and cracking of the gel).

    I drilled out the existing holes to 3/8", and ground out any remaining cracks and chips in the gel that still remained.

    My plan now is to:
    1) Fill in any remaining cracks/chips around the new 3/8" holes with new gelcoat. And then sand back flush.
    2) Add a small chamfer to these new 3/8" holes that I drilled, using a countersink flute bit.
    3) Fill the holes with Six10 and tape over.
    4) Once cured, sand back flush and Drill a new pilot hole.
    5) Use number 10 or 14 screws to attach the tabs while bedding the tabs in either 4000 or 5200.

    Are 3/8" holes with Six10 appropriate? The transom is about 1" thick, and the holes go straight through the core of the transom, so I want to make sure it seals it up really well. The transom is no wood construction, and inside the boat is filled with closed cell foam. But a decent amount of water poured out when removing the old screws, so I know water was getting in there. I currently have the boat tipped to the stern in the driveway with heat lamps and fans on it to dry out any remaining moisture that I can.

    I attached some photos showing the holes after I pulled the tab with the rust still on there, and then some photos of the holes after I cleaned up the rust so you can see what I was originally working with.

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  2. Blueknarr
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Colorado

    Blueknarr Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum.

    Yes 610 could be used for your repair.
    However I suggest a slight adjustment to your plan.
    Remove rust stains with a strong acid cleaner. Neutralize the acid with a baking soda wash. Any acid residue will prevent epoxy from curing.
    Use a counter sink and slightly larger drill to clean up the holes.
    Paint the inside of the holes with a liquid epoxy. A piece of epoxy soaked sponge pushed thru with a stick works well. This will ensure that the hole is sealed.
    Fill with 610. Use a sharp knife or chisel to slice off the excess when it hardens to ice cream. This will save a lot of sanding.
    Drill pilot holes.
    Gelcoat if desired. I would not bother because all gelcoat damage is hidden
    Mount as you have indicated and add large finder washers to the interior

    Good luck
     
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  3. AJG
    Joined: May 2023
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    Location: SE NC

    AJG Junior Member

    I'm curious, why use liquid epoxy and then follow up with 610? Since 610 is a thickened epoxy adhesive. Won't the 610 bond to all the fiberglass and core material and seal it up by itself?
     
  4. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    A couple points...

    1. You can burn the boat quickly with heat lamps the second or within 30 seconds of the water exiting. Why? Water boils at 212F and exits as steam and while superheating is possible, fire is not. But once the water is gone; the cooling effect of 212 degree water is gone. I scorched a boat this way in a garage, so from experience. Fortunately, I have a good nose and stopped it from a full blown fire.

    2. Dry wood will not bond well to any thickened resins. It pulls all the liquid into the wood, so the above advice to wet the holes first is professional advice. But if wood is not present; the epoxy is just some insurance to go into small spaces. I prefer to wet inject all foam boat repairs.

    3. The classic way to repair this is to remove foam behind the hole edge. The easiest way is to get an allen wrench and shop vac. The wrench dimension is just a bit smaller than the hole and the end of the wrench is placed in a drill and used to remove some of the foam behind the fiberglass. Typically, a half inch end turn is plenty. So say 1/4" allen with a half inch end or a bit less and you spin it and it makes a 1" inside hole. Then vacuum it out and do the wrench a couple more times being careful to avoid breaking the glass edge.

    3/8" is a bit small to do properly, but you can also try a 1/4" wrench with a 1/4" turn and make a hole smaller like 3/4", but still behind the glass and super strong, or 1/4" turned and ground to 1/8" offset for a 1/2" hole, etc..
     
  5. Blueknarr
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Blueknarr Senior Member


    Thin liquids will wick into smaller crevices than a thicker paste will.

    I have often seen voids in paste fillings especially at the edges.

    What space was filled with water?
     
  6. AJG
    Joined: May 2023
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    Location: SE NC

    AJG Junior Member


    I drew an arrow to where the tabs mount and this is where the water was getting in. This area is not accessible from inside the boat. When I removed the tabs / screws, water was coming out the screw holes. Which makes sense as no sealant was used and the hole were all cracked and chipped.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Personally, I'd just drill about a half inch hole, then use my offset allen wrench and open the space up some. Use some heat, cautiously on the opened holes for awhile. It will be really hard to get it fully dry. The surfaces of the hole will dry, but the foam nearby will remain wet. You could try to use a shop vac, but you'd need to make a fitting. Cut a 1/2" hole and screw in some sort of fitting like a plastic barbed connection and run air in, from the blower side and let it flow out the other hole. Shop vac air warms from the motor and maybe after 6-8 hours; it'll be drier. Or do it for two separate days. As the first day will dry and the second day after nite; will probably get wet again.

    I'd stop worrying about saving the gelcoat. It is sort of lipstick on a pig at this point..you can dremel grind the epoxied repair and apply a little gelcoat or pay someone to do that part after you do the important bit..

    After drying for a few days; you can fill the spaces with the thickened resins.

    Here is a pic of my offset allen wrench cutter; this one is 1/8 with a sharpened end. This one looks awfully long; maybe it was used for some other cutaway...but you get the idea..

    image.jpg
     
  8. AJG
    Joined: May 2023
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    Location: SE NC

    AJG Junior Member

    Thanks for the pic. And you remove the foam behind the the holes because it got wet I presume, and this allows for some air flow to help dry?
     
  9. Blueknarr
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Blueknarr Senior Member

    So definitely not from a void in delaminated fiberglass.

    Good

    A small aquarium air pump blowing into the hollow will greatly facilitate drying.
     
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  10. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    image.jpg
    Well, the foam is removed this way to preserve the fiberglass, but only to retain the repair, so 1/2" hole is good for you, then make a hogging cutter (this one is too long, you only need 1/4", but try to get to the other hole if possible).

    It can be done for any reason, crushed laminate, wet foam, etc.

    It is the standard BW repair method. But can also be done for thru hull edge enhancement, when you add a thru hull, and decore and add back solid resins so the thru hull won't crush the core and leak..

    This cutter I showed was probably used for a larger thru hull decoring job.

    And yes, for you, remove all the foam you intend to and then dry it out.

    You can buy snub nose injection needles, about 10cc to wet inject epoxy before adding the thixo. Mine are actually out on the table for reasons I care to not mention.
     
  11. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    After you inject the resins; you can insert the thixo mixture. This is actually harder to do than many appreciate. I really hate to advise amateurs on loading caulk guns with thickened epoxy because it goes off super fast, but this is my method. I put the epoxy into an empty caulk tube after the hole is cut. Then run the tube down until flow starts, then insert (another reason to make a bigger hole) and pump until you see resins and then slowly back out pumping. If you have two holes opened across; then you ought to force the resin all the way out the other hole before pulling out...

    Be warned epoxy in a closed, cylindrical container goes off super fast, so be ready for all the injection and at the end run some out on cardboard if you need a dab to finish a hole..
     
  12. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    yup

    Any way you can force air into and out of those holes is much better than applying heat. Heat tends to create steam and steam can find pathways inside the hull, and not wanting to start arguments, but I believe I created blistering this way..so air movement is best way and less likely to burn boat or house
     
  13. AJG
    Joined: May 2023
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    AJG Junior Member

    Ok sounds good, thanks. I'm bought six10 instead of thixo though. They are both similar products I presume and the six10 is equally fine? What thinned epoxy would you use?
     
  14. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Thixo is a generic term for thickened resin.. 610 is thixo

    You can buy any epoxy, but give yourself some working time; so it can be slow speed, like 60 minute, and you only need a little, so you might have a hard time finding a tiny quantity of slow..

    If you buy a ten minute epoxy; it will be really hard to use...and hard is the pun...
     

  15. AJG
    Joined: May 2023
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    Location: SE NC

    AJG Junior Member


    I see. The West six10 says it has an open time of about 40min, so I should be good. I am new to boats but not the rest of this type of stuff. My caulk gun is well worn!
     
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