welding aluminium

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by captain butch, Oct 12, 2004.

  1. captain butch
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: Port St. Lucie, FL

    captain butch Junior Member

    :) Hi; i'm new to the forum but not to boats and boatbuilding. I am taking a new direction however and as such need to do a bit of MIG welding. Does anyone have any tips on how to avoid what might be unforseen pitfalls in MIG welding? I have limited welding experience with stick welding many years ago but I am totally new to MIG.
     
  2. Neno Babic

    Neno Babic Guest

    Aluminium boatbuilding

    Hi
    I saw your message and that's exactly what I need too.
    I want to build a boat made of aluminium.
    Real experience is nothing and I stand that everything can be learned so I'm trying to pick up as much as I can from everywhere.
    Also machine to do welding. Is cutting more simple to do mechanic way or by cutting with welding machine.
    So please if you get some answers about welding aluminium and boat designs for aluminium let me know
    neno
    E-mail:neno@nenodiving.com
     
  3. Arrowmarine
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Southern Oregon

    Arrowmarine Senior Member

    Neno,
    It never ceases to amaze me how simple aluminum boatbuilding is made out to be. Buy a welder and some sheet and presto! You're a naval architect. I've never seen that in any other industry. Dont get me wrong here. I am certainly not talking down to anyone and if anyone is the "jump in with both feet" type, it's me.(Plenty of unfinished projects around here to testify to that:) I am in FULL agreement with you that everything can be learned, but hear me out on this... When It comes to building welded aluminum boats,(or any boat for that matter) Knowledge and experience are EVERYTHING. Aluminum is very difficult to weld consistantly and it becomes more of a "feel" thing. I could go on and on, but the point is....Dont let your zeal to build your boat get ahead of your knowledge of the facts. It takes a lot more skills other than welding to build a boat. And a lot more tools other than a welder. Cutting methods? A worm drive skilsaw w/carbide tipped blade will do just fine(a good one) got one? they are 129$ pus about 40$-120$ for a decent one. Then you will need cutting oil. And a place to do the cutting. Do you have a brake? Or will you just weld on 1" flanges on all your lids.etc. Band saw? Sawsall? Grinders and discs? You will need em all.
    Basic hand tools? Do you know what alloys to use? What thicknesses? Tempers? welding wire alloy? Where to get sheet and sructual extrusions? Can you paint? Do you know the problems that painting aluminum presents and how to overcome them? How about rigging? Safely wiring your boat? Coast Guard regulations? Do you now how to calculate flotation, CG, Max. Horspower and capacity ratings?etc. etc.? (Theres a reason that the U.S. coast Guard wont send you their literature on boatbuilding untill you watch the "So You Wanna Be A Boatbuilder?" video:)
    Obviously, a lot depends on what you want to accomplish. If you just want to build an 8 foot car topper then a lot of the above can probably be disregarded. And you will more than likely succeed. If you want a 24' inboard you probably should do some homework. I'm not saying you cant just jump in and build a boat, of course you can. Will it float? Probably. Will it leak? Almost certainly (If you are new to aluminum welding) Will it be aesthetically pleasing and come out like you envisioned it? Doubtful.(even proven designs that are fully developed can come out looking like crap when built by an unskilled builder)
    For all I know, all these things may be in place already. But if not, do some research. Yes you will have to learn to weld. Along with scores of other skills. The amount of talent and knowledge on this forum alone is staggering. Ask questions. Do exactly like you said"Pick up whatever you can". If you want to build a boat, then learn from the people who do it everyday. And learn all the aspects. Dont set yourself up for failure. Believe me I've seen it. Good Luck. If I can be any help to you or butch , let me know.

    Knowledge is everything. Joey
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2004
  4. captain butch
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: Port St. Lucie, FL

    captain butch Junior Member

    Joey; you need not worry about me, I have no design on building a boat. I was a boatbuilder, (in wood), fiberglass took us by storm and it took me years to master its use. No thanks to using AL to build boats. My use is strictly small fabrication, some boat racks for vehicles, perhaps. Also I doubt that at 64 I have the time to master the skills needed to fab a boat.

    Butch
     
  5. TRS Welding
    Joined: Dec 2004
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    Location: Florida

    TRS Welding New Member

    hey butch
    if you want to do just small alum. fab. work you would really want to have a nice TIG machine. MIG is ok for fast not so pretty work bot TIG is nice and looks good when done and you can use it on anodized. It will be tuff to learn but you will get it.
    good luck
    Tony
     
  6. TRS Welding
    Joined: Dec 2004
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    Location: Florida

    TRS Welding New Member

    Joey
    Not sure how to use this forum I need to post ? about were i could get some designs on steel barges need to buld a 10' x 25' in south Floida. If you could help me out would be great. E-Mail at trswelding@yahoo.com :
     
  7. captain butch
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: Port St. Lucie, FL

    captain butch Junior Member

    Thanks TRS I want to eventually do TIG but right now my skills if you call them that are very rough and I want to get a bit smoother before I invest more money. I start a course in January so I'll see how it comes out.
     
  8. freeagent
    Joined: Dec 2004
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    Location: Iowa

    freeagent Junior Member

    Well there are a few small things you should know! first, of all when mig welding aluminum always try to push your weld away from the bead! try not to tip your nozzle towards your bead (pull) it will give you night crawlers!!! so if your welds come off shiney and clean right away your doing good in this aspect! also dial your wire speed and your pass speed in so that your splatter is minimal to none! Now for warpage this is a big problem! make small passes in different locations timmed to cool off so you don't warp the sheets! also the fewer welds you have to do the better. Bigger sheets and a good brake/folder will help this along! also thicker sheets will help to. t6000 190 is a heavy but strong thickness to work with for larger hulls 125 will work with proper framework. Also you can cut nonfurrose metals/aluminum with a circular saw and a chop/mitre saw with a specified metal blade (not carbide). also it would be good to learn how to prep surfaces in casses of scratchs and welds. walter grinding wheels work great for this! there is a tool out that cuts off the welds to the surface level! The good thing about welding aluminum is that your welds are 100% composition so aside from anexing (heating) the weld areas your welds are as strong as the existing material!

    as for tig welding aluminum I wouldn't in the case of hull construction! Tigging is to hot and will warp the sheets and annex the metals! Not to mention that tigging takes to much time!!!

    also there is a clear coating called sharkite that woks well on the bare aluminum! other than that you can paint it with an aluminum paint or automotive paint and clearcoat the paint 4 coats or more!

    Good luck to Yah! and keep us posted!
     
  9. Phillip

    Phillip Guest

    I'm 20 years old and an independent commercial fisherman/ college student paying my way thought college fishing crabs in south louisiana. I have had no problem learning to weld aluminum. I took a steel pipe and plate welding class in high school and on my own begain welding aluminum. I have never actually build an entire boat out of aluminum. only wood and fiberglass hulls. THis is only becuase of the price of aluminum plate. I have however rigged out a number of boats to fish for crabs and shrimp with aluminum rigging and helped friends build entire boats. Aluminum is not that diffcult to work with.
    You would want to go with a mig set up rather than tig unless you are going to welding extremenly fine aluminum I doubt you would have any use for tig over mig for building a boat. As for eqiupment, you would need only simple tools, I cut the magority of my aluminum with a hand skil saw with a regular wood cutting blade and have NO problem, I have heard that some people actually turn the blade around to cut aluminum, but have never tried this. I also use a cutoff saw with an abrasive blade for cutting pipe and square tubing where acurate angles are nessicary, a regular drill or drill press, angle grinder with a tiger wheel for grinding. a table saw would help. Basically you can use the same tools as woodworking for aluminum. As for a machine you would find one from a welding supply store for a few hundred dollars. All you need is a simple wire fed machine set up with a bottle of argon. I'm sure whoever sells the machines can assist you in setting the machine up for weldin aluminum as for as the poarity goes as it is differnt from welding steel. you should also learn about the differnt alloys.. some are made to be bent others rigid and so on again i'm sure a salesperson could help you find what you need. I have no problem working with aluminum. really once you get used to welding it. YOu can fab almost anythings its really cool to learn and stongly recommend if you have the desire and the extra cash. As for as desighning the boat that wou;d be the part to worry about. Aluminum is pretty expensive comared to other materials, howeve it does last . I have had friend who have fished commercially all their lives and had boats large flat boats that work almost everyday and the hulls are 30 years old. All they do is replace the motors and keep on going. I would be happy to send any pics of projects I have done or other advice if it would help ecourage you to dive in to it. Phillipeit@cox.net sorry for any typing errors i was in a rush and am not really as ignorant as it might sound.
     

  10. phillip

    phillip Guest

    oh yeah the one thing that i would want to add to the other replies is that aluminum has to be extremly clean to weld you need to grind all surfaces and clean with alchohol or a cleaner made for this. and plate thicknesses the boats that we use have 3 /16 bottoms and 1/8 sides. 16-28' for a smaller lightweight boat you could get away with 1/8 all over.
     
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