Wayfarer Dinghy questions

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by misteringer, Aug 21, 2014.

  1. misteringer
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    misteringer Junior Member

    Hi everyone, I have been looking at dinghies that would be suitable for extended cruises (possibly up to 50 days) and I like the wayfarer, but I am skeptical about the amount of freeboard, and the speeds it sails at (surely if you had clothes, food, sleeping bags etc in your boat, you wouldn't want water pouring over the bow and getting everything wet). I am keen on going on an adventure down the east coast of NZ (north island) in an open boat. Like I said, I love the wayfarer and I know it is a proven boat (search 4000 miles in a wayfarer on youtube) but I have some questions about it. 1. What is it like to sleep on? I am planning on either beaching the boat or anchoring it in sheltered places during the night and sleeping under a boom tent. Would this be comfortable? 2.How fast is it? I have sailed lasers before and I know that nearly every time i get into one while there is decent wind I am going to get soaked. Would this happen on the wayfarer? 3. How easy it to sail single handed? 4. How many supplies could it hold?

    All answers are appreciated, and sorry if this isn't really a question about design.

    Edit: Also, I anyone knows anything about the CS-17 (core sound 17) or AWOL (designed by John Welsford), please feel free to share that information.
     
  2. tdem
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    tdem Senior Member

    I can't answer Wayfarer questions, but I can say that I've never come across one in NZ. Quite an important point to keep in mind!

    For your goal, boats I would consider are the Hartley 14 and some of John Welsford's designs.

    The Hartley has a little cabin which will keep your stuff dry, and you might even squeeze in yourself.

    John Welsford's boats have been designed with NZ waters in mind, and are really capable. They come up from time to time on Trademe, there's a Houdini on there now.
     
  3. misteringer
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    misteringer Junior Member

    thanks for answering, I have looked at John Welsford's designs, and i really like the navigator and the pathfinder. The Houdini looks great too. The Hartley 14 isn't exactly what I'm looking for, but it is definitely a possibility. Also, I haven't heard of a wayfarer in NZ, but it doesn't look like it would be too hard to build, with the multi chine hull.
     
  4. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    If you are going to sail in an open boat anywhere with food clothing and bedding on board then the first priority will be fully waterproof bags and boxes whatever type of boat you choose. even in a small cabined cruiser I would recommend that. (I used to sail an 17ft Lysander in the Outer Hebridies)
    I personnally like this type of container,
    http://www.decathlon.co.uk/watertight-container-17-l-id_8275854.html
    though this was just a quick example I grabbed of the net not a brand I have actually used.

    The Q
     
  5. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    The Wayfarer is quite a heavy boat so you may struggle to beach it on your own. A alternative lighter boat is the Mirror 16, though unfortunately rather rare these days. IMHO a better boat than the Wayfarer, I know of one at least which has done voyages (single handed) equivalent to a lot of Wayfarer ones ie across North Sea, Outer Hebrides etc.

    A more modern GRP take on this type of craft would be the Comet Trio, which behaves pretty well, but is much more open decked. There are reasonable size hatches to store stuff in, but always worth 'bagging' it too.

    Lasers will always be wet, with their low freeboard. However the extra freeboard of the larger dinghies will prevent a fair bit of spray getting on board. Even a 24/25 foot keelboat is pretty wet on deck when it starts to get rough though, so make sure you have working self bailers/self draing cockpit to minimise on board water levels.
     
  6. NoEyeDeer
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    NoEyeDeer Senior Member

    If you are crazy enough to actually build a boat (only crazy people actually build boats) my 2c is that you'd be better off with one of Welsford's. From what I've seen of Welsford's boats, they'd probably be easier to build than a Wayfarer. Certainly no harder.

    You'll be able to talk to the designer if you get stuck at any point, and you can probably arrange to go for a sail on somebody else's for a day, just to see if you like it. There must be several around Auckland (JW would know) and it shouldn't be too hard to find someone who'll take you for a spin (especially if you bribe them with beer).
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm not sure of your sailing experiences, but an open boat is fine for a raid or some short term camp cruising, but two months? The boat simply doesn't have the stores capacity for a trip like this. Even assuming (you'd have no choice) you stock up repeatedly in route, exposure would be a difficult thing to manage. Loaded up for a trip like this, she'd lose her speed and handiness.

    Yes, some hard core, crazies have sailed incredible distances, but then again, most of us wouldn't attempt to cross the Atlantic in a 7' boat either, but it's been done, though it doesn't make it a wise idea.

    A better choice would be a CS-17, preferably the MKIII version with the raised deck, so you actually have a place to hide out a thunderstorm, instead of sitting in a flooding cockpit, getting you socks wet, just for the fun of it. In deep water, you'd still fight to just maintain hull speed, but at least you'd have some stowage capacity and shelter. The CS-20 or 22 would be better choices, if only because their size will permit better sailing opportunities (and safety) in the swells.

    As to any creature comforts in boats of this size (15'), well forget it, unless you drag it up a beach and pitch a tent. If memory serves me (it often doesn't) you're the one looking for an off shore 16' cruiser in another post? The same issues arise with this choice as the hypothetical ones envisioned in the other thread. Comfort and the ability to carry stores, require volume and a light open boat is at a distinct disadvantage in this regard. This coupled with what happens to small boats in deep water, make for an extremely uncomfortable, usually pretty slow ride.

    Do yourself a big favor and borrow someones 15' open boat and take it several miles off shore. This is still too close to really get a feel for things, but you'll quickly learn why 99.9% of sailors prefer something with some length and volume to it, in blue water. The motion alone will force the issue, not to mention the lousy sailing, as your puny sail plan is shadowed by the swells every 15 seconds.

    Adventure is a wonderful thing, though a realistic assessment of the adventure, is typically the intelligent approach.
     
  8. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    I should have addded I have sailed a Wayfarer both 2 up and single handed, It weighs 169kg( if down to class weight) ( without all your personnal gear) you would struggle to haul that up a beach far enough to be safe if a storm turned up. It is vastly drier than a laser and more comfortable to be sailed for long periods. But for long duration sailing I would choose a small cabin cruiser, with good anchors and a radio to allow you time to seek shelter. Having sat out a force 10 in one of these http://www.lysander-owners.org.uk/ in very Sheltered cove. It was still a very uncomfortable time for 3 days.
    The Q
     
  9. misteringer
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    misteringer Junior Member

    Thanks for answering, PAR, I have been sailing for 15 years, been in a force 11 storm (gusting 60 knots) and seas up to 6m. I have grown comfortable in rough seas, and also know my limits. I can understand what you are saying about exposure, but the reason I have chosen the east coast of the north island is because it is a very popular cruising area with lots of sheltered anchorages that I can hide in if it gets rough. I am not intending to go offshore, and I would stick close to the coast so I can find shelter quickly if the weather turns sour. There are plenty of places to restock along the way, and I would only need to carry water for about a week at the time (including enough for emergencies) Speed isn't particularly important, and I would generally only travel 15-20 miles in a day, before pulling into an anchorage and setting up camp for the night. I looked at the CS-17 and I like it, but is there any way of having a Marconi rig to save room in the cockpit? Can the boat be home built easily (not many cruising dinghies are for sale in NZ) I appreciate your feedback and I will continue looking into the CS-17.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The CS series are all Bermudian cat ketches, which is a very easy rig to live with (self vanging, self tending, etc.). If you're looking for camp cruising, then about any boat with sufficient capacity will do.
     
  11. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Navigator or Pathfinder are the way to go, boats actually designed for the intended use. One of the problems with a Wayfarer is that build from scratch plans are not available, you need an existing boat to restore.
     
  12. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    The one person who will have a copy of the lines and plans for the Wayfarer is Ian Porter. Try the link below. He and his brother have built loads of them and know all the 'tricks' to building and sorting them. It does appear that the Proctor estate is the stumbling block to public release or availability through the RYA/Class Association of the plans - shame.

    http://www.porters.org.uk/contact.htm
     
  13. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    The Proctor boats like the Wayfarer and the Gull (which I'm more familiar with) were always sold as kits, not as sets of plans. Indeed I'm not at all sure there would be enough information in the kit instructions to build a boat without the kit: you'd also need the templates the builders used to manufacture the kits and also the building jigs - provided all that still exists.

    So I suspect the main reason that the home builder plans aren't made available by the Proctor Estate is that they simply don't exist.
     
  14. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    The issue is probably more in the difference in atitude between designers. Proctor wanted tight control of his intellectual property, whereas Jack Holt wanted to give people the chance to build their own boat. Hence most of Jack's designs are available through some source.Then count the number of Cadets, Mirrors, Enterprises etc against the Wayfarer and Gull.

    I have no doubt that the Wayfarer lines and plans exist. The link below leads to showing one of the original drawing sheets.

    http://www.wayfarer-international.org/WIT/maint.repair.ref/woodie.restoration/RestoreManual.pdf

    In theory, you can build the boat from the measurement form alone. However there will be a few oddities that the Class may or may not allow as a result. The phrase 'like plans' or similar can be interpreted in many ways and sometimes there are measurements not on the form which are on the plans so must be adhered to. The current RYA policy to get RYA administered Classes to have ISAF compliant rules could lead to radically different shapes being legal - why? because the ISAF rules rarely show drawings or plans. In one Class the wording 'These rules are complimentary to the Plans' was nearly deleted. Now imagine what you can do with that freedom, just measurement points and no guide as to how to get to them!. For example a multi chine boat could become smooth hulled and conform....;)

    One big advantage is you can re-engineer the hull to optimise the shape and construction. Worth doing if you intend to build one.
     

  15. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    You don't always have to do this sort of thing in a boat that has already been used for this sort of thing, there will be plenty of boats just as suitable as the Wayfarer, especially if you need to build it from scratch. I agree that the CS17 or 20 would be good choices and the cat ketch rig would be a big plus to me. Someone suggested a Hartley TS 14, I would suggest a TS 16 as a better choice because they are a lot more available, even in fiberglass. I would suggest some inflatable rollers and a block and tackle system for pulling any big dinghy up the beach, it would suck to put your back out.

    Steve
     
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