Water and oil?

Discussion in 'Gas Engines' started by kingtut512, May 15, 2011.

  1. kingtut512
    Joined: Apr 2011
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Reno, NV

    kingtut512 New Member

    First off thanks for everyone's helpful replies!

    Unfortunately it seems like the previous owner did a recent tuneup. Spark plugs, spark wires, distributor cap, contact points, and the starter all look very new. With that said I couldn't see any difference between the spark plugs of 4&5 compared to the rest.

    As some of you recommend I removed the oil cooler and checked the element. I plugged one end, stuck it in a bucket full of water, and blew through the other end. Air bubbles came out so it must mean that one of the cooling tubes were cracked which is hopefully where my oil and water are mixing, not in the block or head.

    I check each tube individually through the same process but this time one cooling tub at a time. Found out it was the bolt hole tube with the crack so I couldn't solder it shut like I planned on doing.

    I checked around for a price on the oil cooler element. $670 from the dealer. The cheapest one I could locate was on eBay for $350+ used. So...

    Again I took some of your advice and decided to completely remove the oil cooler. I custom fabricated a spacer for the filter rather than cut the bolt like someone said (in the future I'd like to put the cooler back on if I can get an element for a reasonable price). I then looped the raw water system that went through the cooler.

    I just finished draining the oil and putting it all back together today. Sometime this coming weekend I'll put new oil and run the engine for a few hours as advised. Hopefully my low compression is just as some of you said and is just due to sitting out since 2007. A good run with fresh fuel, oil, and fuel system cleaning additives is just what it might need. Hopefully. If not I guess the head is coming off and the lake will just have to wait.

    ---------->

    On another note some of you caught me on my inexperience with marine engines. I won't lie, I'm a completely nooby when it comes to an engine mounted on a boat :(. I'm still learning and am appreciating all the help you guys are giving me as I go. This is after all my very first boat. I live in a desert, so you can imagine why.

    When I first bought the boat the fresh oil did give me a big red flag. Living in Nevada all my life and my overconfidence with my background on engines lead me to the gamble that I took with it. After all it was just $300 :D.

    I was unable to perform a compression test at the time since I forgot my compression tester at home and I did not want to drive 3 hours back to get it. The guy I bought it from did however tell me he tested the compression and they all came out at around 140 which became an obvious lie when I got home and tested it myself.

    Again thanks for all the advice and hope you all bear with me on this new unintended "project boat" of mine.

    -KT
     
  2. Adler
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 180
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 139
    Location: PIRAEUS - GREECE

    Adler Senior Member

    Good luck

    Dear kingtut512,

    Fair respond.
    Nice to meet you.

    At your disposal any time.
     
  3. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    good luck with the test run, can you let us know how it went when you have given it a run.
     
  4. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Melbourne/Singapore/Italy

    powerabout Senior Member

    First place I would check a 170 for water in the oil would be from the raw water pump, drain hole blocked so it keeps going along the shaft.
    Watched plenty of car mechanics spend untold hours/money trying to find the water leak and if they had any marine experience they would have checked the easiest thing first
     
  5. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    it is possible but having had 4 volvo's i never had water enter the timing case through the pump shaft. usually when the seals are buggered they piss out the telltale hole.
     
  6. Adler
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 180
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 139
    Location: PIRAEUS - GREECE

    Adler Senior Member

    Conflict reading

    Dear Powerabout,

    With all my respect, the examined Issue on the specific engine described as oil quantity to soft water circuit not the opposite.

    Anyway if a leakage of soft water through the Water pump seals runs to the oil sump then few different observations are obvious like:

    1. An increment of Oil Level into the Oil sump when the engine is stopped.
    2. The Soft Water level is getting lower on the Expansion tank also.

    3. Evaporation gases coming out from the Oil Sump's Breather after few minutes of the Engines' Start.

    On that case the Soft Water circuit is free of Oil which is completed different to the referred on this thread.
     
  7. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    adler these engines are direct raw water cooled, there is no soft water or expansion tank.
     
  8. Adler
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 180
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 139
    Location: PIRAEUS - GREECE

    Adler Senior Member

    So what?

    Dear whitpointer23

    What is the difference?

    In our case the oil becomes to water circuit.

    On the other one the Water drops to the Oil sump.

    In first case the lubricating areas remain safe.

    On the second case the Lubrication liquid is not Oil but mixture with raw water

    and the high temp of the Oil Sump environment produces evaporation gases from the dropped water.

    So where is the similar point of possible damages that arises though the kinktut512's report as referred from powerabout ?
     
  9. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    yes you are correct, we know he had clean engine oil which rules out pump. assuming the engine had run at some time after the oil was put in with water hooked up.
     
  10. murdomack
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 309
    Likes: 23, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 282
    Location: Glasgow

    murdomack New Member

    Yes, he had clean engine oil when he bought the engine and after a quick run with no water(first post). He then says that after turning on the water he had oil and water when he removed the oil pressure switch.
    If it was then Powerabout is probably correct. I have had water entering through the raw water pump shaft on a Volvo Penta as well. If I stopped the engine with the seacock open it found its way into the sump.

    Kingtut says in his first post that he turned the water on and then started the engine. This is what I think caused my problem, the seal on the water side gets pushed in by the water pressure and blocks the tell-tale hole, so you think it is not passing. After that it just flows in whenever the water pressure is higher than the oil pressure, if you are using a hose from the mains that can be all the time.

    Kingtut, remove the pump and check the seals, it's not too difficult. When you read manufacturers instructions about running engines with a hose they always show the hose drawing water from a bucket. I found out why the hard way.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
  11. Adler
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 180
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 139
    Location: PIRAEUS - GREECE

    Adler Senior Member

    More Simple than it seems

    Dear All,

    1. When the engine runs and a crack is happened on Oil cooler core the Higher pressure of the Oil drops it in to the Water circuit (Water side of the Oil Ccooler).

    2. When the engine Stops the Oil pressure becomes zero and the sea water pressure (because the Oil cooler is lower than the WL level) pushes the water to the oil side of the Oil Cooler.

    In our case when kingtut512 tried to take out the Oil Pressure switch (after the engine stopped) he found the Oi-water mixture there and later observed it in both sides.(in the water side of the Oil Cooler also).

    Question

    If the Water becomes to oil sump through the Sea Water pump how the Oil passed to the Water Circuit ?

    The power about idea works only for one way results (Water to Oil not to the Opposite).

    The sealing pack of the Sea water pump could let to be passed from water which then will be dropped into the Sump but never the opposite because has no contact with the Oil flow to its other side - just only seals the water.
     
  12. murdomack
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 309
    Likes: 23, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 282
    Location: Glasgow

    murdomack New Member

    Adler,
    Kingtut has already said that he has found a cracked tube in his oil cooler. My point was in reply to Whitepointer 23 saying he had clean oil in his sump.

    In his first post Kingtut says that he turned on the water, THEN started the engine. I always started the engine before I turned the water on when starting my raw water cooled Volvo Penta when out of the water but I still ended up with leaking seals. These pumps are designed to suck in water not to be pressure fed.

    It may be that his seals are fine, but in the circumstances I would check them just to be sure and draw the water from a bucket when running the engine.

    It is quite possible that he has two problems.
     

  13. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    An engine that sat for 4 years will no doubt enjoy being operated .

    I would try modest cruising for 25 hours , and IF you worry, again take the compression readings.

    You may be delighted at what operation does for the engine.

    FF
     
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