Wanted: Lighweight sea kayak or baidarka near DC

Someone just offered me a Current Designs Slipstream for $200 in nominally excellent condition, stored indoors. I expect to take it. If nothing else, it would be a good to have a 2nd sea kayak, so I could put a friend in my Caribou. I think the Slipstream will work for me better: it is rated for people under 170 pounds, whereas Caribous have a maximum capacity of 375.

The one bad thing is that Slipstreams are said to have a skeg, which I fear could break. But supposedly it can be raised - I will check when I look at it. And who knows: I might discover skegs are useful in some conditions.

I may have underestimated the weight of my Caribou (maybe it isn't a Caribou S - it has no skeg). I weighed it on a spring scale, but not on level ground. A review says they weigh 52 pounds. The Slipstream seller says it weighs 43 pounds (which would make it the Kevlar model). So with a covered ladder or board over my racks, I think/hope I can lift and handle that.

Maybe I will sign up for a kayak building class later in the year, and make a SOF too, if they let me adapt the size to me. I'm scared I'm not up to that, but I'd like to try.

 

SOF are easy to build and meet all your needs ( SOR ).

Don't "worry" about stuff falling off.
If there is an issue, address it, no need to "worry".

 

What is SOR?

Statement of Requirements??

And wrt "stuff falling off" you mean (potentially) the skeg?

 

A skeg could break if they cannot be raised when beaching. Most kayaks with skegs are removable
You owe it to yourself to try a raisable rudder especially as you seem to be focused on light weight to create better speed (and easier loading)
Try it in say 2 foot or more chop in windy conditions taking say a 45 degree line into the wind.
Ease of keeping a line by steering, better trackability (ie less bow hunting) , paddling more evenly and regularly on each side which means more speed.
Paddling evenly on each side evens right and left arm effort which means being less tiring.
There is really not a down side with the exception of a pound or two.

Foot controlled and raisable from the cockpit

 

Yes i see this and follow

 

Sigh. I got the info wrong - it is not the Kevlar version.

More importantly, the boat is being sold without a title - and the seller (who I don't personally know) is out of state, and was sending a friend to sell it. The seller originally bought it used too, without a title, and probably didn't pay Maryland excise tax when they bought it.

Since Maryland does not require (or I think, allow) kayak or canoe registration or title unless you put a motor on it, I think most people buying new or used canoes & kayaks in Maryland do not get a title or registration transfer. They just pay each other, and take possession, and do no paperwork. Most used boat buyers also don't pay the Maryland excise tax - which IS a legal requirement in Maryland.

But
https://dnr.maryland.gov/boating/pages/registration.aspx
says you can't legally sell a used boat in Maryland without transferring title.

And if the excise tax is paid late, you have to pay a penalty.

"Vessel excise tax must be paid within 30 days of Maryland tax liability to avoid the assessment of penalty (10% of vessel excise tax due) and interest (1.5% per month)."

If it's been a fair number of years, that penalty might be significant. I'm not sure who would have to pay it - but even if it wasn't me, I don't want to get anyone in trouble for an innocent mistake.

So if I understand this right (and I might not) most used kayak and canoe sellers and buyers in Maryland are in a sticky situation. You basically can't legally resell the boat without the paperwork you don't have. And there is a possibility of paying a penalty.

It could also get sticky if an overzealous coast guard employee asks to look at the hull identification number (do they ever do that?) - and looks it up, and discovers the buyer doesn't have legal possession.

And I think states (like nearby DC & Pennsylvania) that do require title and/or registration won't let you use boats there legally, without transferring the title and registration that you don't have.

I might completely misunderstand this - e.g., maybe it's a new requirement, and doesn't apply to older boats or boats that were resold in the past.

But, all confused about requirements, I gave up, and decided not to buy. I'm very disappointed, but don't want to break any laws, or pay hefty penalties.

Argh.

P.S. If anyone understands the issues better, and wants to buy it, the seller will relist the boat with CCA (Canoe Cruiser's Association).

 

I've been kayaking since the early 1980s. Never had a boat with a rudder or skeg. I might make a mistake and break it.

 

Different areas of the country go by different rules. In Texas canoes are not titled though the longer 40'+ ones do need some special consideration for transport. Also sailboats under 14' in length don't require titling. In Oklahoma canoes are not titled but sailboats are, fortunately the process for homebuilt boats is fairly easy, have done it twice, Texas is a little more bureaucratic, only had to do it once in 30+ boats.

I wonder, had never thought about it before; do all the little kayaks stacked up in front of WalMart have HIN's ?

I'm sorry to hear the deal fell through, I think there's some fundamental goodness in being able to paddle and be in contact with the water as long as possible.

 

Re-reading the DNR web page, I may have it all wrong. I now think it is possible to title a canoe or kayak, even in those cases you are neither allowed nor required to register it. And that the title is a proof of ownership. So, if a boat is claimed to be stolen, a prior title is evidence.

It is possible that if the boat was neither registered nor titled before, and that does not have USCG "documentation", the state has no way to know who owns it. And no way to know that the second owner didn't pay the applicable excise tax. So there may have been no reason for me to have been worried.

Which makes not titling a boat dangerous. A thief could title it just as easily as the original owner, and you couldn't prove they were a thief (though maybe if you have a "bill of sale" that might be taken as evidence? - provided excise tax was paid within 30 days of when the bill of sale was issued). So maybe Maryland residents should all make sure all our boats are titled, even if they don't need to be? But I'm not clear if we would need a Bill Of Sale to do that. And whether we would also need the bill of sale from when the excise tax was first paid.

But that web page also doesn't make clear exactly what boats need to be registered, and exactly what boats need to be titled. So I'm very confused.

It refers to the "State Boat Act". For Maryland's State Boat Act, see
Browse - Maryland Code and Court Rules https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Browse/Home/Maryland/MarylandCodeCourtRules?guid=NF674EA009CC111DB9BCF9DAC28345A2A&transitionType=Default&contextData=%28sc.Default%29 (the law)
In particular
View Document - Maryland Code and Court Rules https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Document/ND4703A30381811EFB2EFCF4853D96363?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Which among other things makes it clear that registration is not required for sail boats, manually propelled boats (which kayaks usually are), and motorboats under 16' and with motors under 7.5 horsepower.

The history of the Maryland State Boat Act (which dates to 1965) is
https://dnr.maryland.gov/boating/Pages/maryland-state-boat-act.aspx (history)

I may call the DNR to try to resolve these issues.

Of course, all these rules might be different in other states & countries. And I won't try to figure out what applies to boats bought from out of state, or boats owned by Maryland residents that are used in out of state water - maybe each state can create its own rules for the latter.

EDIT: If https://www.boatsmartexam.com/blog/your-guide-to-boat-registration-in-maryland is correct, one cannot title a boat without registering it (I think), and you need a Bill of Sale and a Certificate of Origin. And if it is over 16' you have to pay $24.

 

Mitch, you worry too much.
Just build a SOF and enjoy.
They're a fast, easy build.
Good luck.

 

BlueBell: that's fine for building a new boat - though I think homebuilts made in the U.S. after 1972 need a Hull Identification Number and possibly a Certificate of Origin too, by U.S. Federal law. (Not sure about imported boats...) I bet a lot of home boat builders don't know that, and don't do it.

But what about boats one has purchased previously? AFAICT, they don't need to be titled, if they don't have a motor, but if one wants to title it, to protect one from a thief claiming to own it, I think one needs a Bill of Sale, Certificate of Origin, and a filled out Maryland DNR-240 form. And if it wasn't done within 30 days of one's purchase of the boat, one has to pay potentially substantial penalty fees - that I suppose might exceed the cost of the boat.

And, possibly if one wants to use the boat in a state like Pennsylvania (or in DC) that requires titles and registrations, even if one doesn't live there, and one only uses it there once, one needs to obtain a Pennsylvania or DC registration and possibly title too. And maybe provide similar documentation... So, if you want to follow all the rules and use the boat in many states, you might need to get many such registrations and possibly titles, and pay many fees. I'm pretty sure most of the kayakers and canoeists I know don't do this.

This is crazy. Why didn't the U.S. government create its own titling and registration system, instead of passing an act to let each state make it's own system?

 

I should have just bought it. But I will be out of state for a while, and can't do it in time.

If any of you are curious, here is the info I found for several states, on titling & registration for boats without a motor:

Maryland: Source: I called Solomons Island DNR:
No title or registration required if there is no motor.
Title Is useful for lost or recovered (stolen) boats - DNR looks you up and tries to find you.
*No other use.
*Is $2 if bought <10 years ago, and you have the receipt.
*Otherwise is $7
*But you have to pay state excise tax 5% of avg retail value
*Also need
**Side profile picture
**picture or tracing of 12 digit hull id # - usually on the stern
***He claimed all boats made or imported to US have a Hull ID #, including
***home builts.
** Signed form B240 - does not require where & when it was bought
Registration allows motor use for use >= 90 days.
(I asked how do they know how many days you have used it? They have an investigative agency. I've kayaked since the early 1980s and no one has ever asked me to see documentation. Though I don't have a motor - that may be different.)
*Must title at the same time as register.
*Registration is not proof of ownership.
**Is free if motor is <= 7.5 hp
**$24 (?-I forgot to write down) if over 7.5 hp

Pennsylvania: Source called harrisburg fish and boat commission
see also https://fishandboat.com
*Even out of state visitors need (Pennsylvania?) registration (which takes significant time
* to obtain)
* OR a launching permit to use state parks, state owned launches or "state adjacent"
* waters, which includes many rivers, like the Susquehana.
*Launch permit are sold at walmart, aaa, elsewhereor or online;
* must fill out #1397 2797
* do not need documentation of purchase
* Registration is proof of ownership
* Registration is proof of ownership in Pennsylvania; $22/2 yr
* Fill out 734 if not registered elsewhere; rev 336
* More complicated rules w/ motor no matter what the power rating
* Titling required on boat with motor 14' or longer if 1997 or newer

District of Columbia: Source: Called the boating registrar 202 698 5529
*See also Register Your Vessel with OVERS | mpdc https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/register-your-vessel-overs
*See also https://dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/harbor_boat_register_0.pdf
*Contradictory info:
**Requires registration for boat use no matter what.
**Requires registration beyond 50 consecutive day use.
**But can be registered in any state - in fact he claimed registration in any state is good for any
** other state, which appears to contradict what Pennsylvania person said.

Virginia - Didn't find authoritative Virginia site, but various Internet sources say no
registration or title required if no motor

New York source: Registrations - NYS Parks, Recreation & Historic Preservation https://parks.ny.gov/boating/registrations.aspx
*You do not need to register: Non-motorized boats, such as canoes and kayaks

 

How's the build going @mitchgrunes ?