Wanted: Lighweight sea kayak or baidarka near DC

I've given up on the idea of building one myself. Too much of a learning curve, and I want something soon.

Does anyone near the DC Metro area have an under 30 pound 16-19 foot sea kayak for sale, or is willing to build to spec? Weight and low paddling effort (I sometimes paddled with people who go close to 5 knots, and I'm out of shape) are my main priorities, so I guess that means skin-on-frame or a lightly built composite.

Or does anyone near the DC Metro area repair old skin on frames - I have an old one whose frame is partially rotted, though the skin is intact - probably not salvageable, and I no longer trust it enough to take it more than swim distance from shore.

I prefer narrow - my hips are about 16" or so wide, but recognize something that narrow is unlikely to be available used. But definitely no wider than a 24" beam. I'm about 140 lbs.

If built to spec, I would prefer a full length waterline, to reduce paddling effort. And a cockpit that can fit off-the-shelf neoprene spray skirt, ideally with a ledge, so I can quickly try to put it on during a re-enter and roll, without letting in a lot of water. (Not sure that is possible.) Possibly strong edges in the stern so I can do a squirt turn if I need to quickly turn into an oncoming wave. And a foot pump or easy way to install one. A light color so it doesn't smoke if stored outside in the sun. Any wood painted or treated to slow corrosion. And a raised cockpit in front to make it easy to re-enter - I'd like to scoot onto it from the back. Foot pegs. And a perimeter line so I can strap stuff to the top deck.

I don't care about materials or authenticity. E.g., the frame could be wood, aluminum, fiberglass, or whatever. I just want a light relatively fast boat. But probably not a folder - I don't seem to be strong enough to assemble them, and want low maintenance, despite outdoor storage.

 

These folks might have something:

https://clcboats.com/shop/kayak-kits/

 

Thanks. They mostly deal with stitch & glue boats - more rugged (which would be nice on gravel beaches) but substantially heavier. I'm getting up in years and would have trouble lifting them. I've already got a 42 pound fiberglass sea kayak - perhaps about the same weight range?, which is getting heavy for me too.

Also, from what I've been told, the classes don't include the final finishing steps, which they expect you to complete at home. I don't really have the confidence to do that.

They sell some supplies for building SOF boats, but no classes for them that they list.

Another group I looked into - the Delmarva paddling group has annual classes on building Skin on Frame boats. I missed the one in October. And there is Cape Falcon - but they are in Oregon. That would be a long and expensive flight or drive. Also, Cape Falcon seems to be oriented towards building artistic quality boats - I don't care about that. But they have some great video resources for people wanting to build there own. Yostwerks offers no classes, pre-built or custom boats, but they've got some great resources too. And I think there are SOF boatbuilding classes in the State of Washington. Again, too far away.

I just want to buy something good. I was fairly happy with the used one I bought before - but it was designed primarily as a roller, and for someone heavier than me. With me, despite it's 19" x 19' dimensions, it really only had a 7 or 8' waterline for my weight. It was reasonably fast (compared to my fiberglass boat) nonetheless. But I'd love something with a full length waterline.

I forgot to mention that inline with my low maintenance desires, I don't want a rudder or skeg. From what I've seen, they go bad rather often, even in sandy beach landings.

I don't know anyone who offers classes in building ultralight composite boats, or who custom builds them. I know they exist - someone told me some racing sea kayaks are about 25 pounds. Though I need to be careful. I think I could handle an ordinary 16" wide sea kayak (though I admit I've only paddled one that thin in flatwater), but some of the racing kayaks have cylindrical cross sections, and are a major pain to stabilize, especially when resting and standing still. Same thing for the surf-skis I've seen (though I've only seen the racing models). (Plus, I'm used to using my knees to stabilize kayaks - would be hard for me to stabilize a surf-ski.) (And yes, I can roll, though I use the much maligned full sweep roll. Or hope I still can. Out of practice. I know a 16" beam boat will be less stable than the other boats I've had.)

5 knots is probably a bit ambitious for me, at my age and fitness. But - I know a lot of the local paddling groups go over 4. Even when they claim a trip will only go 3. A lot of people think that difference isn't a big deal. But at my stage it is. I'm hoping going down to about 16" beam and a full length waterline would be enough to compensate to compensate for being out of shape and slow.

But if I buy used, I know I will have to compromise. But I'd likely still go for it.

 

SOF really is not difficult. I can lift my kayak with a single finger and it is about as effortless to move. I solo so have no one to keep up to. 16in would be too tippy and i hear anything over 15ft has more skin friction resistance to overcome for the higher speed=more effort. A Dave Gentry Mobjack

 

I'm fairly sure that there's a boat out there for you. If you're willing to pay someone to build for you you probably can afford to buy a ready built kayak.

In order to make any kind of recommendation one more more variable is needed; how much do you you weigh? You're obviously a lightweight but how much makes a difference.

Also what kind of paddling; a skirted kayak was developed by a people that rolled deliberately to see food sources underwater (so I'm told). Do you go out in really cold water? A surf ski has a lot of merit and properly set up give you a lot of control with your legs fit into place.

My background is with marathon canoe racing, primarily as a designer ;-). My personal boats have gotten shorter as I age, am now comfortable padding a 12' 28# canoe.

 

In DC, the first place I would ask is Home | Alexandria Seaport Foundation https://alexandriaseaport.org/. I would think that you would do better to drop in rather than phone. They are at the south end of Founders Park in Alexandria in a floating timber frame building. They don't appear to be building SOF but when I was in the area, they were the best source of information like this around. There have been changes since then, but it would be a good place to start.

Minneapolis is not exactly a convenient location for someone near DC, but you could pick up a pretty decent youth built SOF canoe or kayak from. https://www.urbanboatbuilders.org/buy-a-youth-built-boat Their 12' kayak is 24 lbs. The skin is the 840 ballistic Nylon from Spiritline. Very nice boats, not factory finish or price. Shipping could be a problem unless you have been considering a trip to the Boundary Waters.

16 feet and 30 lb is possible, but pretty tight on the weight budget. You appear to know enough about dimensions to live without any 'sage advice' that I could offer.

 

140 pounds. And I'm about 5'4". I don't think any commercial kayaks are built for my weight and height. At least not reasonably light & efficient ones. My former SOF boat was about 30 pounds, which I can lift with some effort. I'm getting old to lift & anything heavier, plus my current car has a lousy shape for lifting boats onto.

This is a sea kayak for use on Maryland tidal rivers and the Chesapeake Bay. It has to be efficient in waves from 0' to maybe 7' tops.

There are many conflicting theories about the design of native arctic boats. I'm not competent to judge. One fairly respected researcher claimed Aleutian baidarkas (the narrow long waterline design I would like to copy) sometimes fully hydroplaned, when paddled by the native warriors athletic enough to survive frequent warfare. He cited Captain Cook saying a group paddled over to his sailing ships at about 11 knots. Of course I'm not nearly that athletic, so it isn't clear that copying their design would work well at my power level.

I'm used to rolling with my knees splayed out to the sides of the boat. I tried rolling a traditional Greenland boat that required me to squeeze my knees against a center pillar, and did poorly. I am not very flexible, so I use hip snap strength rather than finesse to roll.

I tried someone's 16" SOF wide boat once - though almost in flatwater (though she paddled it in rougher seas). I loved the way it handled. I would guess it was about 16' long.

I've never used a rudder or skeg. The surf skis and many of the racing kayaks I've seen are designed to require that, rather than use lean turns. Looks fragile.

Used to. Then I realized didn't actually enjoy it. But maybe 50 degree water could still be fun for me.

On the Epic surf ski I tried my reflexes weren't fast enough for easy stabilization. With a sea kayak it's usually enough to keep my hips loose and my center of gravity over the boat. Maybe that was partly a lack of experience... But I'm not a real athlete.

A sit-on-top boat means more sunblock. Maybe unhealthy. The Chesapeake Bay and nearby tidal rivers have a lot of sea nettles. A skin suit could solve both, but looks weird on guys.

One of the reasons I want a full length waterline boat is that I got into trouble once in a Greenland kayak (CD Caribou S - designed for people much heavier than me, so it had a short waterline too), when shore break was about 1.5-2' high. The boat went into resonance with the waves, and the ends bounced; when hit by wind and waves, the boat kept turning out of the waves, and I lost control. (I've had trouble convincing people that such resonance is possible, but I'm certain.) I've found multiple times found the resonance bounce phenomena slows the boat down a lot. It is hard to keep up with people or fight currents.

I'm not looking for a several thousand dollar boat. I'm hoping to find a used boat, or a mostly amateur builder who doesn't want that much. I know a lot of people manage to follow the Yostwerks directions, but with my extremely limited shop skills, I don't think I could could manage.

 

Is that boat available for sale?

 

Cool looking program! But I'm a senior citizen. Might not fit their troubled youth apprenticeship parameters.

I went to the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum Apprentice for a Day sessions a few times. But it would have taken a lot of visits to pick up all the necessary shop skills. And what they build there are bigger, heavier boats.

It's really hard to find woodworking classes for beginners other than turn-a-bowl-on-a-lathe and build-a-chair-or-cabinet type stuff.

 

I think air fright from Sweden might be prohibitive. It was built from plans by Dave Gentry in less than a week. The hard part was waiting for the paint to dry. It will be the last craft i give up, when im too decrepit to lift it onto the car, I should probably not be out there on my own anyway.

 

Mitch, I sent you a PM

 

Part of my problem lifting my current fiberglass boat is my car (a Venza). I was sure the low roof would be easy to lift boats onto. But it has a very curved roof line, which makes it hard to place a roof rack near the back. So I can't slide the boat onto the back rack from behind, despite my soft carpet covered rack bars, without scraping the paint. And if I lift the boat near the side of the car in windy weather, it can swing around and damage the car in other ways. A lighter and slightly shorter boat will hopefully be easier to deal with. I can't afford to replace the Venza this soon with another boxy truck or van. Especially since it still runs well, which in my mind makes replacing it unethical.

I've tried a succession of "Thule Hullavator" kayak lift systems, but they were made badly, and didn't last long. Even 42 pounds was too much weight long term for their shock absorbers - and that's light by commercially made sea kayak standards. And I tried placing extension pipes inside my rack bars, but the swinging-in-the-wind problem is still there. I suppose I could try to rig a very complicated pulley system that would prevent swinging...

Of course, carrying to and from the water would be easier if I had a proper kayak cart. Mine was designed for whitewater boats, and I can't figure out a way to stabilize a sea kayak on it. But that wouldn't solve the car lift.

Is 16' too long a waterline for a relatively weak paddler? A 12 or 14' long boat might be lighter and easier to handle in the wind and waves, if it didn't have high ends. One crude math model I tried said 12' is roughly optimal below 5 knots - but maybe it assumed flatwater, and didn't include what happens when the ends are repeatedly thrown into the air, then splash down, by steep waves. I used to have a 4 meter (13.1') Phoenix Cascade slalom race boat. It was slower than almost any sea kayak. But I think at my weight, it wasn't anywhere close to full waterline length.

I'm also afraid that a lightweight full length waterline low end boat might dive at the ends, and slow it down that way. I had a Wavesport XXX whose front end dove down into every "hole" but it was a pre-production model that had almost no volume at the ends - and it was shorter than sea kayaks.

Much safer to find a used boat I can try, even if it isn't perfect.

The obvious alternative is to only paddle with groups, and get someone to lift the other end onto the car. And stay with my old boat. But I'm so out of shape I would slow any group down for now.

 

If i remember correctly once i drove VW golf 3 and I put 5.5m jon boat on the roof. Usually we used short Nissan GQ for that purpose. I also transported Zodiac futura to the Cro with this golf 3 .Rear seat removed . Forget about paint if you transport boat on the roof.
Maybe inflatable kayaks are a solution for you . I saw high pressure kayaks , drop stich kayaks like paddleboard .

 

Aqua Marina 15'8" Tomahawk AIR C 3-Person DWF High-end Canoe Inflatable Kayak | Good Wave https://www.goodwave.co/products/aqua-marina-tomahawk-3-person-kayak-air-c