Want to build a small foiling trimaran

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by neptunkryssare, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. neptunkryssare
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    neptunkryssare Peter

    Just not to be missunderstood. I am asking for two things,
    First, I would like to find plans for real boats that is close either of the boats which are in the videos. Preferable around 560 or so.
    It does not need to be class-legal .
    Material - plywood and/or foam.
    Second - if that is not possible, I would like to find plans for similar rc-boats that I can build and gaign some experience from.


    Only modification I would like to do for NF3 If I could, Just slightly larger amas as failback.

    And no, I am for some reason not very found of windrider.
    Maybe thats because I want to build the boat myself.

    Because there are no plans for that trimaran, I am trying to find a way to accomplish my wishes in some other way.

    To my sadness I have not fond anything near that is possible for me to buid more than as a rc-boat, so I figure I should start there and build a rc-boat first to gain some experience.

    I have found 2 videos of quite similar rc-boats that best suit my wishes.





    If I find plans for such a rc-bot I would like to play around with some modifications.
    Preferable modifications I would like to do is
    1.AXE-Bow
    2."Flexing" amas.
    3. and I guess most important - selfadjusting foils.



    But I can not find planes for building them.
    Do anyone know to find plans for similar rc-boats to start from.?
    OR maybe even better- full scale plans for boats of that kind.?
    If I can get full-scale plans, then I think that I maybe I first build a modell of the fulls-scale plans before I make the real thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2014
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Small Foiling Trimaran

    Peter, you might try posting on the German Mini 40* forum, link below. I received a nice note from the guy in your second(RC Hydrofoil Sailing...) video, Christophe Hubscher. (his note is under comments here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmXCdAlo4mk ) I'm sure he would help you and his boat is excellent! I have his e-mail--e-mail me and I'll give it to you. My e-mail is in my profile-click on my name.

    http://www.rc-network.de/forum/forumdisplay.php/166-Mini-40

    Also you can send a PM( if you've reached the 5 post threshold) to "PerthMini40man" who posted in the MPX thread here: post 1238 http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/mu...lf-righting-trimaran-test-model-36058-83.html His "real" name is Ian Holt and he has designed some excellent surface piercing foilers. It appears that he stays within the Mini 40 Rules which prohibit an oversquare platform. Any surface piercing foiler will benefit greatly from an oversquare platform.
    Check posts 934 and 1175 as well.

    Also you could join and post here: http://www.rcgroups.com/sailboats-59/ There are a few multihull guys that post once in a while-one-Dick Lemke-may be able to help with plans.
    *Mini 40- length 48" Beam 48"-and sail area is limited-forgot the number.
    ====================
    A surface piercing foiler will be simpler to build, but there is another type of foiler that could interest you and that uses fully submerged foils with wand altitude control. I designed and built a number of F3 foilers around 14 years ago. The great advantage of this type foiler is that it develops 100% of its righting moment using the foils. You might consider this for your second foiler. I can help with the technical stuff.
     

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  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    foilers

    Here are some full size cats using fully submerged and surface piercing foils-just for reference to foil systems:
    ==================
    Heres a video of a brand new 18' cat using a version of the same basic system Dr. Sam Bradfield used on his tris: dual independent wands controlling T-foils on each side.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bXg0LI5EQ#t=16



    And here are some stills and a link to the Whites Dragon-an 18' foiler using surface piercing foils( http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/whites-dragons-mini-hydroptere-esq-35062.html ). And don't forget to check out the 18' Flying Phantom and Nacra F20FCS foiler threads here-both use UptiP foils(pioneered in AC 34 by TNZ) as well as the much larger GC32 thread here-just to learn about foil types:
     

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  4. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member


    Foiling is sufficiently new and complicated that it is only offered as a product, not stock plans. I am pretty sure Doug would know about any that exist. If you want to build you will be doing your own calculations. You can find the calculations in various threads on this board.
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Foilers

    Peter,talking with Christophe would be your best bet on getting plans for an RC foiler.
    Ian Holt might also be able to help for a Mini 40 version.
    Your idea of building a model to learn about this stuff is a good idea and has been done by some of the best in the business.
     
  6. neptunkryssare
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    neptunkryssare Peter

    Thank you for that Doug. I saw that someone asked for plans in the comment field for one of his videos at youtube, and he promissed to send him the planes. I tried to ask there as well, and I will give him some time to respond before I try contakt him by mail.

    At the third video I posted, there was someone asking for plans.
    He got this response "The incidence of foils and rudderfoil is fixed,I can adjust the foils by turning the transverse tube.The axis of the rudder is in aluminium(4mm) and adjusted by torsion. center hull 127cm,beam 160cm,weight 1.650 kg,side hulls 56cm,mast130 or 160cm,jib 120x22cm,main120x43 or 150x56cm,foils elliptic 8x25cm,rudderfoil 13x5cm.profile of foils not important,may be plane;my foils are plan-convex and rudderfoil symetrical."

    Ok, as I don't have the knoweledge to build something from that information -so I need some generic catamaran plans.
    After a lot of searching I found a place where I could dl plans for this http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?7518-The-newest-rc-trimaran!

    which is the same boat as PerthMini40man in post 1238 had built.

    I have downloade the planes, and i think I will ask in a rcsailing.net for more help in how to build from them if I choose to go for the original planes to get it right, and then modify from there.

    pros: I will learn much enough to use from when I try to build the boat that I reall want to play around with. And also I can reuse everything expect the hulls for the project I want to do.
    cons: Besides from that it will cost some money - It will take longer time before I can start fiddling with my own project.

    I think I should go for somethying that someone else have built - but I hope that I find something that is closer to what I want.
    Solution - I will give him some time to answer me on youtube, else I mail you Doug and ask for his mail.

    In the meantime I can plan to get the materials needed to begin the build.

    So regarding the material (remember that I am a newbie), I guess that I either could use balsa or styrofoamsheets.? Bals does not cost much, but I stumbled upon this, a catamaran manucactored by Dan Elliott at instructables
    http://www.instructables.com/id/RC-Wing-Sail-Catamaran/ .

    "The "Cookie Cutter" construction technique allows me to make quick inexspensive changes to the design without having to scrap a model and start over, everything is tweekable"

    I would prefere the "Cooklie Cutter" method which gives that I should use styrofoam sheets if that not is an hughe dissandvatage.
    If I do, do I need to treat the hulls with somehing to make them stronger.?
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    foilers

    Initially, you said you wanted a trimaran-have you changed your mind. A trimaran does better with an oversquare beam which gives you more power at little cost in weight. The only reason Mini 40's are square is because of a crazy rule.....
     
  8. neptunkryssare
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    neptunkryssare Peter

    I have not changed my mind, I still want a trimaran. I am reffering to his construction method.
    Oh - I see now that I wrote wrong, of course I want a trimaran. Sorry, Yes I want a trimaran. I had just read about catamarans and somehow that get stuck in my mind (late at night here in sweden, I guess I need some sleep ).
     
  9. neptunkryssare
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    neptunkryssare Peter

    And yes, thats one of the reasons why I search for other planes than the mini 40s that I downloaded.
     
  10. idkfa
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    idkfa Senior Member

  11. neptunkryssare
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    neptunkryssare Peter

    Yes the trifoiler i fantastic. But I think it is a littlle out of reach to build.
    I stumbled up on this one - which in its title claims to be an rc-model of Hydroptère, but it seems more to be inspired from the trifoiler.


    What I just love with this video is that the boat foils even though it seems to be very little vind,

    Maybe I build something like this as a rc one day when I am more experienced.
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Foilers

    Peter, as you get more into this you'll be able to distinguish foil types better: the model in your video uses surface piercing foils(automatic altitude control with speed)-you can tell because of the angle. The rudder T-foil is a trailing foil that "follows" the main foils. The rigs are similar in principle to the Hobie Trifoiler, but the Trifoiler uses fully submerged foils controlled by forward facing "feelers" that move the foils to control altitude.
    Hope it works out with Christophe!
     
  13. R.Finn
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    R.Finn Junior Member






    So all this hoopla with Doug's Fire Arrow, and there's already a very lovely, simple and wandless design out there, making it look easy. Thanks for linking those videos. They're refreshing to see.
     
  14. neptunkryssare
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    neptunkryssare Peter

    Doug have made foiling boats, both full-scale and rc for many years. You can for example do a search for his rc-Trimaran F3, and you will see that it is a damn good foiler..
    His Fire Arrow is in many ways a whole new concept. Development takes time
     

  15. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Foilers

    ====================
    It's obvious that you don't know the advantages of the different foilers. Christophe and Franck's foiler's are truly excellent, but so is Ian Holts relatively narrow Mini 40
    design. These foilers and my F3 were designed as fast RC foilers.
    The Fire Arrow is a completely new foil system on a SCALE model-big difference.
     
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