Waller TC 670 or Jarcat 6?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by neomastino, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. neomastino
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    Location: Indiana

    neomastino Junior Member

    Thanks again Arbee! Norm has done a great job. Seeing his detailed construction and layout pics have definitely made the decision easier. TC 670 it is! My stability concerns are not really wind related. A conservative approach to reefing should take care of that. A couple of the lakes here, ( Erie in particular) are known for going from fairly flat to a 3-5 foot chop pretty quickly. Paying attention to forecasts can help, but I want to make sure we get home safely if the worst happens. The majority of the time we'll be in sheltered areas or out on calm days, so it isn't a huge concern. Keeping something on a trailer requires some compromises. Good luck on your build.

    Jeff
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2008
  2. Arbee
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    Arbee Junior Member

    The comments on the Waller Builders Notes web page about sailing one a couple of hundred kms down the east coast of Australia does add some confidence about the boat's ability. The skipper was a very experienced old salt however and that makes a hell of a difference. Sounds like your requirements and conclusions are very similar to ours. We have a 22ft mono at the moment (Bonito 22 built in New Zealand) and while it is a fabulous boat it is a fair lump to tow around without a 4WD. The multihull TS concept just seems to make so much sense re weight - and a full sized double bed to boot.
     
  3. neomastino
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    Location: Indiana

    neomastino Junior Member

    I'm not sure that I would try that trip! Who knows though, we always end up pushing the envelope. lol When do you plan to start building? I'm ordering plans in the next couple of weeks, but won't start building until Sept. or so. Have a couple of house projects (roof, etc.) to do over the summer. Perhaps we can exchange notes if we are building at the same time. I had planned on a fairly simple interior finish, but after looking at Norms site, have started to change my mind. All of that brightwork looks fantastic.
     
  4. Arbee
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    Arbee Junior Member

    Not exactly sure when I'll start building, have promised myself a few times in the past couple of years but unfortunately not yet past the "too busy with work" stage of life so it keeps getting put back. Would like to think I'll get a start later this year. I'm sure you'll appreciate the plans, they are a work of art together with the building notes. From the one I've seen and sat in (as per Mike's site) I can say the boat is certainly classy enough to wear a really good internal fitout. I was a little concerned the lack of sliding hatch would make cabin access very awkward but was pleasantly surprised. With a full width opening as per the plans (the one on Mike's site has a narrower opening) I suggest it will be even easier.

    Best of luck with it, would be great to see more of these on the water and more pics around of completed ones.

    Robert
     
  5. Arbee
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    Arbee Junior Member

    I noticed you joined the Jarcat site, not stalking you honest! If you search that site for the word "Waller" you'll come across some interesting comparisons by a Jarcat owner who had the Waller for a while (there are also some photos of it on that site and the associated Jarcat Jarboree site).

    Hope that helps.

    Cheers

    Robert
     
  6. neomastino
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    Location: Indiana

    neomastino Junior Member

    The comparisons on the yahoo Jarcat group certainly didn't do anything to sway me towards a Jarcat. The Waller seems to fit my needs much better. However, every time I get ready to click the buy button for the plans, I start eyeing the Waller Coral Sea 25, Tennant Chevron and Woods Shadow. With their extended set up times and larger rigs, none are a true trailer boat, but man, the places you could sail in one of those! Somebody needs to convince me that bigger isn't better! If I thought I could easily set up and rig one of these boats on my own without a complicated expensive trailer, I'd be looking for a seasonal slip and building a true Great Lakes capable cat. (Gato at 10' wide would be interesting too.)
     
  7. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Many of the cat designers say "bigger is better", methinks a rethink will be on the cards? - What I have done is start from the other end - what do I want to do and where do I want to go... This has then determined the minimum size (budget) then figure out how to work with that - is it possible for me? then go for that "compromise"

    Sorry to upset your apple-cart - but that is how this fool sees things, and maybe some stuff you will find relevant to your objectives...
     
  8. neomastino
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    Location: Indiana

    neomastino Junior Member

    Your thoughts are similar to mine. I keep going back to "what do I want to do with this boat?". The reality seems to be that I am trying to do too much with too little boat. We live in the midwest U.S. There are several small inland lakes near us. It would be nice to be able to tow a small boat to these lakes, set up quickly and sail. But...... we live very close to Lake Michigan. If we are honest with ourselves, we have to admit that whatever we end up with will most likely be in a slip on this lake most of the time. The Jarcat 6 and Waller 670 would be ok for this use, but would require careful monitoring of the winds & waves. Something along the line of a 23-25' demountable cat makes a lot of sense. We can still tow it home for winter storage, thus avoiding any extra fees and gaining the ability to do modifications and maintenance without driving to the marina. We like the Woods Shadow, with it's smaller rig for cruising, but were put off by the LAR keels as they make trailering a little more difficult. I have the study plans for Tennants Chevron, but don't know if I care for the sliding aluminum cross beams. Maybe a standard Strider with the Shadow rig?
     
  9. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    The standard Strider can come with the big Shadow rig. I used that set up very successfully on Striderman, the Strider I had in 1992.

    With it I raced with my brother (who had never sailed any catamaran before) in the UK multihull championships. In 7 races we beat Rodney Patterson (3 Olympic medals) 6 times boat for boat. He was racing a Farrier F24. Conditions varied from light to over 40 knots as measured on the committee boat.

    The last race that windy day was cancelled as the race committee was seasick and the committee boat anchor started dragging. We raced Striderman under double reefed mainsail and no jib to windward (still tacking with no problems). We unrolled the jib offwind. No one in the fleet used a spinnaker.

    So it is a nice fast, comfortable, seaworthy boat. I had sailed the boat to the races singlehanded along the English Channel, non stop about 140 miles each way. I remember that the return trip going west, which is ALWAYS to windward, was quite bumpy, especially at 3 in the morning as I was beating round Start Point against the tide. Good thing I couldn't see the waves!

    Maybe your sailing conditions will never be as bad as sailing in England, but don't you think it would be reassuring to know the boat can take it?

    I'm sure you have also decided that you can reef a boat that has too much sail, but you cannot increase performance on an under-rigged boat if the wind is light. No doubt that's why you prefer the bigger rigged Strider/Shadow.

    Over the years Striders have had different rigs, beams and keels/daggerboards. It's very much a case of mix and match to suit your own needs. All versions have been successful and for a general purpose all-rounder a Strider is hard to beat.

    You can see more on my website, including some videos of Striders sailing and more on the history of the Striders on the FAQs page.

    www.sailingcatamarans.com

    I hope this helps you chose the right boat

    Good sailing, whatever you chose,

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs
     
  10. neomastino
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    Location: Indiana

    neomastino Junior Member

    Thanks, Richard. I have the study plans for Shadow. The design definitely interests me, but I think I prefer the standard Strider hulls. We had considerd Janus as well, but my wife looked at the builders site that you linked to on your web site, and decided that the berths were definitely too narrow for her taste. How much wider are the Strider hulls than Janus? Can you tell me how wide the berths normally are in a Strider or Shadow? I'm trying to convince her that a deck tent would be a suitable option for weekend trips, but I know I'll have to answer the berth width question before building. Thanks again.
     
  11. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Back full time in the UK

    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    The Strider and Shadow hulls are identical, except that the Shadow has LAR keels and the Strider has daggerboards.

    I don't have the drawings to hand as I write, but I have spent months sleeping in the hulls. On our 3000mile, 3 month trip to the Soviet Union from the UK in Strider Clubs (the grp version of the Shadow) we slept either in a hull (the forward bunks are the most comfortable and have sitting headroom over them) or on deck under the boom tent.

    As you will have seen from my website we have a solid removable cuddy on our Merlin, Tucanu, which we prefer over a tent. When we are in racing mode, as we are at the moment, we remove the cuddy and have an open deck boat, using a boom tent but sleeping in the hulls.

    That is what we will be doing for the next couple of weeks, and also what Tucanu's previous owner did when cruising round Vancouver Island and the Strait of Georgia for the last 15 years.

    However for cruising the solid cuddy is much more comfortable and I'd recommend it. When trailering we fit the cuddy on the back of the pickup (it is 6ft 6in wide) and sleep in it - we did that for 3 weeks last year - long story. Jetti and I can fit/remove the cuddy quite easily.

    Cuddy and associated deep mastbeam drawings are available on my website for those who want to see/use them.

    Incidentally, neither Jetti or I are large people (I am 80kgs 180lbs, 5ft 9in 1.75m tall) but equally we are no longer young, tough or fit.

    Hope this helps

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  12. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    I am looking (for myself) at two major options both about 12m (40ft loa) and around 24ft beam max - give or take a couple of feet... One being skinny hulled efficient, low powered (15 knots) power-cat, the other being a skinny hulled sail-cat, with hitch-hiker rig (as per the John Hitch "X-IT") and the tenders - little 14 ft beach cats for fun and to enjoy sailing with 20 minutes "get-ready" time and easily driven by 5 hp outboards for other times...
     
  13. neomastino
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    Location: Indiana

    neomastino Junior Member

    A 12m yacht is a little ambitious for me! I don't have the space to build something of that size, and at this point in my life, am not sure I would want to commit the time either. I'm starting to buy into the theory that to some level, bigger is better. However, I also believe (I think I saw this on Richard Woods site) that you (I) should build the smallest boat that meets your needs. Some have more time, skill, resources and motivation than me, so this may not apply. :D
     
  14. Arbee
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    Arbee Junior Member

    I agree on the "bigger is better" issue, especially if you are not considering crossing oceans. A couple of statements quoted to me over the years that I've used as guiding lights and observed in many others include:

    The amount of sailing you end up doing decreases proportionally with the complexity of the boat/rig and number of crew you need.

    There is no "one perfect boat", just a range of compromises that we tend to change our minds about every few years as our lifestyles change and our experiece grows.

    We've had bigger boats and smaller boats and our current advice would be "settle for the smallest boat you can be happy with (and that does at least 80% of what you want it for), not the biggest boat you can afford".
     

  15. Jarcat
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Jarcat New Member

    We have sold a few sets of Jarcat 6 plans over the years to ex-Jarcat owners who have moved on to larger yachts, only to find that the joy of sailing is replaced with the burden of maintenance. Your case is slightly different because you might be able to hardstand your boat. The differences between the Waller and the Jarcat six are not obvious, but they are there. Simple things like no dinky outboard brackets, single handed rigging in less than ten minutes, and easy towing due to the lightweight all add up to make the Jarcat a fantastic design. Performance in light air is not the only thing to be considered, and the higher centre of gravity and larger sail area does not make the Waller a more stable design.
     
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