Wall Street Gambling, Price Manipulation, etc

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by brian eiland, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 188, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Financial GREED—, the Wall Street 'Casino', Price Manipulations, etc

    I chose this title for this forum subject thread because it is financial GREED that drives many of the unsavory business practices that hopefully will be brought to light in the following discussions. I've addressed the subject of the stock market becoming a 'gambling casino' before,...in a few different individual postings thru-out various subject threads. I saw it in SE Asia, and I see it happening here on Wall Street. It has come to the point now that I believe it deserves its own individual subject thread.

    Why might I add such a subject thread to a boating forum?....just two. First off I figure there are quite a large number of yachtsmen that regularly participate as investors in the stock market. Secondly, we are all affected by fuel prices that appear to be quite volatile these past few years, and threaten to significantly diminish the scope of the future yachting-boating market.

    With that brief introduction lets go to a 'fuel price manipulation' article I ran across just recently....
     
  2. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 188, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Price Manipulation: No Fundamental Reason for Oil to Move Higher?

    The fuel prices at the pump have undergone a sharp rise in the last month, and I was looking to see if there was any correlations with the rise in crude oil prices, particularly if there was corresponding reasonings. I found this:

    “It is obvious that the OIL market is manipulated, oil has gone nowhere for 5 months because there is no reason for it to go anywhere, i.e., are a ton of supplies on the market, no Middle east disruptions, Israel hasn't attacked Iran, huge builds in gasoline products, no jump in demand.

    And yet oil mysteriously rises $10 in this common period for manipulating markets at the tail end of the year, and the beginning of the new year. Lets juice it up before the contract rollover, no one cares, no one is really looking too closely at what we are doing, everybody is focusing on the fiscal cliff issues and the debt ceiling debate..........”


    http://etfdailynews.com/2013/01/10/price-manipulation-no-fundamental-reason-for-oil-to-move-higher//


    ....some more from that article:
    "Asset Class, Euphemism for Roulette Table

    Prices are not determined by the fundamentals in a manipulated market they are determined by oil being an “Asset Class” which is code word or a euphemism for giant Casino in New York instead of Vegas.

    So we cannot legally play poker online in this country, but you can pull up your internet connection, and place your wager on the price of oil, such hipocracy in this country. The price of oil, and as such gas is determined not by supply and demand factors, but by whether Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley or J.P. Morgan puts $400 million on Black or Red, the literal Oil Roulette game of the big banks.

    If Goldman Sachs puts $400 million on Black prices go up, if they put $400 million on Red prices go down, as simple as that, this is actually how the price of oil is determined, nothing more and nothing less.

    Market Correlation & Wagering Strategy"
     
  3. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 731
    Likes: 97, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1324
    Location: MD

    bntii Senior Member

  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,115
    Likes: 1,057, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Then why not just post the link to the forum where those interested can participate and cogitate to their hearts contact with other like minded economists?...rather than clogging up subjective thoughts/feelings on such highly emotive issues. Just a thought

    This is a boating forum, lets not forget that!
     
  5. Number4

    Number4 Previous Member

  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 15,498
    Likes: 1,039, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    If it is not about boating, please not post it; particularly these political issues.
     
  7. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 188, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    I think you need to read that article again

    I was picking out a period of time....say the last three months where the price at the pump has jumped very quickly, and yet the price of crude has not. And certainly the demand in that period of time has not changed much. In fact traditionally the demand for auto fuel usually drops over the winter.
     
  8. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 188, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Per my opening posting:
    I'd venture to guess that fuel prices have had a BIG affect on the sales of boats these last few years, ....and even the use of bigger vessels as well.....read a few of such postings over here:
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=978674

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/18666-what-point-boat-worthless.html

    ...just a few
     
  9. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,041
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1818
    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

  10. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    China alone consumes about 40 percent of all raw materials. If Chinas present rapid growth rate slows to 7 percent, its economy will double in ten years. This implies that China will consume 80 percent of all presently harvested raw materials. Commodity prices respond to demand. Price manipulation by Wall street wide boys is a minor component in the price of a ton of copper or a ton of coal.

    Additionally the cost to recover resources like oil or copper has increased. Old resources like Saudi oil simply bubbles out of the desert. New resources like Brazilian oil requires an offshore platform designed and operated by a the best engineers on earth to extract oil from deep water. Arctic oil and minerals are even more complex to harvest.

    The same goes with Fracking natural gas. Very expense to extract the gas and once all the easy gas fields are depleted, new gas fields will be even more technologically complex to harvest.

    This commodity crisis affects boats because they are made of commodities... wood, oil, metal. I see the end of middle class boating .
     
  11. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 489, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I seriously doubt many here understand the complexity of the commodities markets. The current metals trend is basically driven by two major factors; China's huge growth and the general lack of mining investment world wide. This cycle is now likely to come to a grinding halt, for several reasons, but mostly because of China's infrastructure surge brought to bare, after the economic collapse in '08 has brought roads, bridges and trains to locations where the town hasn't shown up yet. This spending will wane in the next few years and commodity prices will again fall. This of course is quite simplistic, but again, I don't think many here actually follow the various commodity markets and the geopolitical/economic stimulus driving them.
     
  12. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 2,588
    Likes: 125, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1650
    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    I have a boating related twist into this... I was just sailing last couple of weeks around the ABC's and there were a lot of tankers lying (red over white over red) at open sea tanks topped full waiting for the crude oil prices reach the top..
     
  13. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 188, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Exactly, another element of the manipulation....'exercise some control over the supply'....and not coming from OPEC
     
  14. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 188, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Why no mention of Iraq,...the world's second largest PROVEN reserves??



    A very large number of boats and yachts are fabricated from fiberglass and resin. We all realize that these materials are oil-based products, don't we?
     

  15. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 188, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    I am sorry to offend some folks with this posting, but you do realize I placed this discussion in the 'Open Discussion' area rather than the formal boating forum discussions.

    These are discussions that might arise at your local Yacht Club
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.