W17 Trimaran contact

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by fzr1483, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. fzr1483
    Joined: Sep 2018
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    Location: Houston TX

    fzr1483 New Member

    Hi there,

    I have been interested in building a small, daysailor trimaran for a while with the following requirements:
    -must be able to single hand as I will most often be sailing with 2 toddlers as crew
    -relatively dry sailing. The main reason I want to build a tri, is that I'd like to have a cockpit and some dry storage. I ruled out commercially available boats like the Hobie IA, Weta (which I can't afford anyway), or beach cats for the reasons above.
    -LOA less than 18 ft due to workspace contraints.
    -trailerable and easy to launch with one adult. This requirement leads me to folding tri's with a shallow draft
    -intented sailing will mostly be in inland or sheltered water. However coastal capability for raid style event would be ideal.
    -I don't plan to race. For sailing with my girls, I'd prefer something that is lively but not difficult to handle.
    -self bailing cockpit i feel is crucial. I don't expect 2 toddlers to be very helpful when it comes to bailing.
    -since I have never built a boat before, I would be a plus if either 1) several boats have already been built, where I could find build logs or ask builders if I have wuestions or 2) the designer is actively supporting the design.

    My short list consists of the W-17, Strike 15, and Seaclipper 16 OC.

    I think all 3 boats fit the bill. I have read a few sailing reports and magazine articles on each of the boats. Any additional feedback regarding which boat may be most suitable would be greatly appreciated.

    Does anyone know if Mr. Mike Waters is still actively supporting the W17? Is he W17 Designer on this forum? I had submitted some questions regarding his W17 on the smalltridesign website and haven't heard back.

    I do really the design of the W17 and the option of a wing mast. I already know that the initial rig for whichever boat I build, will most likely be a used beach cat rig. But as an engineer, I like to geek out about the possibility of building a wing mast.
     
  2. Pshapiro
    Joined: Sep 2018
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    Location: Grass Valley, CA

    Pshapiro New Member

    I’m starting to build a W17 myself, and can confirm that Mike Waters is still actively supporting the W17, and is W17 Designer on this forum. I’ve found that he always replies to questions, but it may take a couple of days, and he seems to take weekends off. I looked at the same options you mention while trying to decide which tri I was going to build, with many of the same requirements, and ultimately decided the W17 was my best choice. My thinking on the other two ran as follows:
    1. Seaclipper: I now sail a CLC kayak with their SailRig option, and after two summers with it, really miss being able to move around, so anything with kayak seating was out of the question. It’s just too limiting for me.
    2. Strike 15: I went as far as buying the plans for this one, but was unable to find a lot of support from other builders, and it seemed to me that the designer sailed the prototype a few times and then sold it, so not a lot of ongoing development. I also spent a lot of time searching for the used rig components and found that the good ones available weren’t cheap. When I did a cost comparison between this design and the W17, there really wasn’t enough difference to push strongly in favor of the Strike. And once I found myself trying to modify the looks of the Strike to more closely resemble the W17, I realized that obviously the W17 was what I really wanted, so I ordered the plans from Mike Waters.

    While I have yet to really start construction, I can verify that his plans are incredibly detailed and his manual is very complete, and he has been quick to reply to my questions. He is actively involved with updating the plans and manual as improvements are made by other builders and himself. I still feel that I made the right decision.
     
  3. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

  4. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    -------------------------------------------
    upchurchmr, what would your acceptable angle of heel be when your tri was flying the main hull?
     
  5. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I never worried about it while thinking about a tri.
    A catamaran doesn't require a big heel angle, which is all I have experience with.
    But I have flown a cat (daysailor) at 45 degrees, but it was just for fun, you don't sail well at such a high heel.

    I wouldn't want to have the ama's in the water at rest, due to poor performance in light air - which is the major way I know to reduce heel angle.
    Another way is to insure low total weight, so the main hull doesn't have to be fat and deep.
    The only other way I know is to have ama's that are relatively wide for their buoyancy, so they don't immerse deeply. But that is reported to cause a jerky ride when waves hit the ama's - not that I would care in a daysailor (I think).

    You'd be better off discussing this with a F-27 sailor (or 25, 24, 22, 28, etc.)
     
  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    I was just curious what you'd want in a tri. I read that you wanted a tri that would fly the main hull so I thought maybe you had given the angle some thought.......
     
  7. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I just don't consider it important.
    People have been sailing mono's for 100's of years with varying degrees of heel.
    A generic tri should be less heel, until it's going upside down - not very desirable.
    So you will have to actively control a tri more than a mono.

    That is just part of the package.

    It's like saying you should not run a car off the road. People just accept that as part of the limits of driving a car and don't think about it much.
     
  8. fzr1483
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 2
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    Location: Houston TX

    fzr1483 New Member

    thank you all for the quick responses. PShapiro, good luck on your build. Realistically, I don't believe that I will have a work space cleared out for another few months. I hope that you will have made some headway on your build by them. Then I can pick your brain if I run into any problems.
    Upchurchmr, your thread was one of the many that I read while doing my research. Since that post, the articles Mr. Waters referred to have been made available on his website. I have read those as well. For my SOR, I believe that ultimate performance and the ability to fly the main hull is not a very high priority. That is not to say that I wouldn't consider letting a friend, who is a much better sailor than I am, skipper and see what the boat could do. So knowing and understanding the design limits of the boat is still very useful information.
     

  9. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    We all have different requirements, desires, and bias.

    This may be a very good boat for your SOR.
    Many do not need or want to fly a main hull.
    Some other famous designers have taken the path of relatively small amas to prevent flying.
    Good luck.

    I would suggest looking at a Cross 18, but the person who could supply plans appears to not care any more. To my knowledge no one can contact him.
    P.S.: I did have a conversation with a Cross 18 owner. He described sailing in a high wind when he believed he was "planning" the boat. Given the displacement hull form, I believe he had flown the main hull, noticed an increase in speed and a decrease in water noise - but didn't understand what had happened. Apparently it was not frightening or a concern in any manner. Of course, he might not have understood how close he "might have been" to flipping the boat, since the stability curve drops off fairly quickly.
     
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