Vynil ester with plywood

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Michail, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. Michail
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Michail Junior Member

    I have seen on the net different opinions about the use of vynilester as sheating over plywood. Some say it is crap, and some say it is works ok.

    Is vynil ester resin a reasonable (I am not saying the best, the best being epoxy, I guess) option for covering wood? Does vynilester bind well with wood/plywood?
     
  2. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Simple answer is if you want the glass to stick to wood use epoxy !!
    Sometimes polyester or vinylester will stuck sometimes it wont !, depends on the autual wood , is the wood oily , is it dry , has it got an open grain , etc etc . :eek:
    Use epoxy !!!theres to many "IFS" in the poly story . :p
    Remember not all epoxys are equal so check that as well !!:confused:
     
  3. Michail
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Michail Junior Member

    And the complicated answer?
     
  4. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Most things are never black or white ??Just shades of grey !!

    Life is never yes or no there are many mights and maybes inbetween , what works one place sometime wont work in another . Found that out a few times during my travels .
     
  5. Michail
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Michail Junior Member

    For stitch and glue, any chance of using vynil ester? or is it too dangerous?
     
  6. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Me i would not even think about it !! if you are using plywood!,use epoxy resin !!!even the glass skin on the outside , used epoxy !!


    But if you were using glass panels instead of plywood i would deffinatly use Vinylseter resins throughout the whole construction for the whole boat !! , panels made up of
    peel ply ,
    Triaxle outside layer
    and 2 x 450 csm in the middle
    and triaxle layer on the inside
    with a layer of peel ply to finish the panel .
    The peel ply will give you a nice finish inside and out just peel it off and then paint of glass ,what ever you need to do !!

    For all the the taping all done with bouble bias tape or a triaxle tape at 90/45/45 for the taping so all 3 layers of glass strands are across the join ,all Make sense !!

    On the plywood panels use epoxy resin always !!!

    if you make glass panels use vinylester resin !!!

    Keep it simple and theres no confussion and you can sleep easy at night !!:p
     
  7. GTO
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    GTO Senior Member

  8. Michail
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Michail Junior Member

    Is there any coating or primer which sticks well to wood and to vynil ester?
     
  9. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Fantastic !! I been looking for a discription thats easy for people to understand and those two site have them both !! going to print an keep on the wall at work . for others to read !!:p
     
  10. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Dont know what you can get in your part of the world but polyurethane paints always 2 part Will stick to either glass of wood and both just use the right undercoats and primers plus top coats that are all compatable with each other . Carefull of colors , Dark colors draw heat some worse that others !!When panels get hot and cure of dry all kinds of marks start to appear as filler shrink and wood grain shrinks and cracks etc etc !! Just be carefull !!
    You normally get problems also if you try to mix differant products from differant companies . Best to just pick one brand and stay with that !.
    Again sleep easy at night !!:p
     
  11. Michail
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Michail Junior Member

    I have also heard about HMR resorcinol as binding agent for wood and vynilester. Is it feasable to do safe stitch and glue using this method?

    We obviously have polyurethane paint here, but again the question would be whether a wood covered with such paint would stick well to vynilester?
     
  12. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Vinylester has very good adhesion if used properly, just like other materials. Most boats are built with polyester and it adheres adquately to wood or plywood. There are thousands of boats with thirty or more years still in operation. The problems are usually from water intrusion caused by cheap building practices or bad bedding of later installations.
     
  13. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    The default position is always going to be to use epoxy but that does not mean that other resins wont work, as an example the majority of production fiberglass boats built over the last 50 years have used polyester to tab in plywood bulkheads with adequate results most of the time. A friend of mine did some crude tests of peel and shear strength using vinylester resin to bond plywood to plywood with 1708 in between, he did the same test with epoxy as a control. the results were both the same in that the faliure was in the wood veneer, not the glass to wood interface, i would suggest doing your own testing. I always use epoxy for secondary bonding, not because its neccesarily the only way but because i always have it around, but i would have no qualms about using vinylester either. John Guzzwell uses some other resin, (i cant remember what it is) in place of epoxy because he got sensitised to epoxy and claims good luck with it.
    Steve.
     
  14. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Do tests till all the stars fall from the sky !,all will work in varying degrees including good old pva glue , But what is going to happen when its one or two years old and the water had got into the plywood under the glass ???
    Yes the epoxy will only stick the outside veneer that obvious !!! so you use 3 ply not 5 ply so the epoxy penetrates further and deeper . You need all the glass over the joins not 50% as you will get using 1708 thats 0/90 or you going to cut it on a 45 degree angle and create bouble bias . Its a bit pointless dont you think !!!!
    Use epoxy !!:eek:
     

  15. m3mm0s rib
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    m3mm0s rib Senior Member

    I am a new member to the Forum and of the few I've read I see how different you are building a boat in your country. I do not understand why you must enter veneering in building that weighs so much. With 9-10 leaf mat we have a 8-9 mm thickness capable of withstanding speeds even 70 knots. As for its weight is about 9 ounces in m2. Now for the ethylene-vinyl. Like to polyester scratches do a lot over the veneering before watering with the material and after we put as much rattan dictate any plan
     
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