Volvo65 One Design

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Corley, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    Holy SH**! How did they manage to put 600 kilos more carbon into a boat that is 5 feet shorter? These things are not going to perform any where near the 70s. Shame.
    I get trying to be conservative on the budget and safety issues but they didn't have to build a tank.
    I'm guessing the monohull 24 hour record will stand for a long time now. These things won't get within 100 miles of that record even with ideal conditions.
     
  2. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I agree, an additional 600kg seems like a lot. I'm not sure how he is figuring that is that versus the minimum weight of the VO70 rule?
     
  3. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Plenty of other sporting disciplines have changed rules to reduce performance in the name of safety and economy, though.

    I haven't really been following the last Volvos in detail. Did they actually produce much in the way of technology that trickled down to "normal" sailing?
     
  4. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member



    Not determined. referring to his statement and trying to determine how.

    Statement from article again.

    Team SCA is now back training in Lanzarote after Christmas and New Year break. The team will continue its two-boat testing program as this has been very successful to date and allows the coaches to further develop the training programs.

    They had the boat when they made the statement.

    Losing interest in the race fast. Probably will not follow it on the internet if it starts at all and probably will not bother travelling to Auckland to see them if they make it to Auckland.

    About time another marine engine manufacturer other than Volvo sponsored some Reginal Oceania races. Perkins probably will.

    OC
     
  5. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    Well as you well know, trickle down happens in a very slow and circuitous way that is not always immediately apparent or ever apparent to those that are not staying close to the progress.
    Under a rule that changed little over three races the boats saw huge gains in structural design that were taken up as weight savings. Rigs, keels, rudders, dagger boards, sails, weather charting, tactics, media...on and on, all saw big advances. I may not be able to point to a single advancement that was made solely on a 70 that is in use in what one would deem a more mainstream use. However, it is very clear to me that the sort of challenge that the 70s presented were very different to the one that the 65s present, no matter how hard the marketers try to sell it as such. No doubt the sailors are tested on a more level playing field but it is no longer a development race. It is still good racing but it isn't Formula One any more. And these boats are not anything like a 70. More like a Clipper 70.
    So, to head off the inevitable badgering to point to a single widget that was born solely on a 70 and will change a recreational sailors life tomorrow...no one can do it. That by no stretch implies that there was not plenty of things learned that will be used by designers and builders down the road. Including myself.
     
  6. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    Yes. For every kilo the 70 was able to save in structure (and still meet the structure rules) was another kilo they could put into the keel. That made a very big difference in their speed over days and days. They would pay a very big price to remove ten kilos from the hull structure or fittings.
    But you are right. Something is fishy there. I can't see how it could possibly be 600 kilos more and still meet the measurement condition of 11 metric tons?? Something isn't right. I'd like to know where he came up with that number?
     
  7. Corley
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  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Volvo 65 One Design

    Well, it's going to be interesting to hear what the crews have to say after this race. I'm still convinced that a One Design doesn't represent the challenge that used to include design, engineering, and building-and I think it is unfortunate, very unfortunate.
    The saving grace will be if the racing winds up significantly closer than in past years.....
     
  9. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Recalling the last race, with the various structural failures I think they truly learned they reached the point of diminishing returns with regard to making the boats lighter and lighter. The storms encountered these days are delivering some pretty brutal conditions. The decision to make a stronger boat returns crew safety to the forefront and also places more important elements back into the race:

    e.g.

    -sailing tactics
    -maintenance of onboard systems & sails

    Skippers who fair best in these latter areas truly are the better sailors. One should not have to rely on luck of the draw (regarding whether something as primary as the hull, mast, etc. will break or not). In my opinion it's time to acknowledge the structural failures and get back to better boats and better sailing.

    In aerospace, it is disgraceful to design and build a craft that falls apart in the sky in the first year of use. The Volvo design team was smart to step it up.

    As for shorter bay races and regattas, it's a bit more acceptable to push design limits a bit further. Bluewater ocean racing, on the other hand, must be respected for the unforseen risks it brings.
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Volvo 65

    Joseph, I think there are probably other ways to ensure safety than eliminating design and engineering 100% from the contest. This way no new design breakthrus can be expected ever and I think it goes against the tradition going back to the Whitbred to do that.
     
  11. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Hello Doug, I would disagree that breakthrus cannot be achieved. You're totally shutting things down with that statement. What is needed is improved analysis & testing methods including strain gages and non-destructive testing for fracture critical parts. That's the least they can do. There's also improved quality oversight of the manufacturing process, which we all know can vary with boats. All of these things are going on now.

    For races closer to shore these important elements are not that much of a big deal. You've got safety boats & fellow sailors on stand-by to rescue the crew. This is not always the case with offshore racing. Until you hop off your moth boat and ride on the deck in ferocious seas you may never apprediate a solid design.

    Of course, these notions can collide with tradition. At the end of the day the race organizers, sailors, sponsors and other stakeholders need to examine what is more important. I wholly concur with their decision and hopefully we'll be able to read about the items I noted earlier (better sailor = tactics + boat management skills...I would also add physical fitness as it can make/break many onboard tasks).
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Volvo 65

    =================
    Joseph, read the interview with Ian Walker Corley posted a few posts back. As best I can tell the Volvo 65 is a one design class. No design freedom in rigs,hulls, foils and even smaller details are now controlled. I think Ian said something to the effect that these boats are more tightly controlled than a Laser.
    -------
    offtopic: are you still aboard the Clipper?
     
  13. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Controlled like a laser. I like the sound of that. The last thing skippers want to worry about are design/build issues. They want to focus on sailing and not fixing stuff. Looking forward to the next race.
     
  14. Corley
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  15. SuperPiper
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    SuperPiper Men With Little Boats . .

    I see the pros and the cons of a one-design in the Volvo Ocean Race.

    But, the only thing the team really owns is the paint job. It's like driving a rental.
     
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