Vo70

SailDesign said:
Addict - I'm still dying to know where you would go to "spectate" the Volvo :)
Even if the boats are identical, after a few thousand miles you are not going to get more than two boats close together within any given day. It just doesn't work like that. "Close competition" may mean a day's difference, or even a few hours.

Steve
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For us geeks, Virtual Spectator does a good job. It was kind of neat to see Movistar and Pirates course change hours before news of the failures was on-line. The first few days the racing appeared very close on the Virtual Spectator display, even though the boats were not in sight of each other on the water.

ABN AMRO 1 has 242M to go and a 100M lead! Go Stan Honey!

The old Quakka Sports coverage of a couple of Whitbreads ago was very good. 1000's of virtual skippers were involved and got to test their routing skills against each other and the real boats using real time weather.

I'd like to see a field limit of say 20 boats, if more than 20 enter, then the top 20 get to race past the first leg (or something along those lines).

If making the boats a little slower and a little stronger at reduced expense would double the entries I'd consider it an overall gain for the race.
 
RHough said:
For us geeks, Virtual Spectator does a good job. It was kind of neat to see Movistar and Pirates course change hours before news of the failures was on-line. The first few days the racing appeared very close on the Virtual Spectator display, even though the boats were not in sight of each other on the water.

ABN AMRO 1 has 242M to go and a 100M lead! Go Stan Honey!

The old Quakka Sports coverage of a couple of Whitbreads ago was very good. 1000's of virtual skippers were involved and got to test their routing skills against each other and the real boats using real time weather.

I'd like to see a field limit of say 20 boats, if more than 20 enter, then the top 20 get to race past the first leg (or something along those lines).

If making the boats a little slower and a little stronger at reduced expense would double the entries I'd consider it an overall gain for the race.
Click to expand...

Yes the Quokka Sports coverage a few races ago was superb- I checked 5-10 times a day online. Now with broadband and sattelite links coverage should be realtime. People I know with only modest interest in racing were watching the coverage then. Now almost nobody I know even remotely cares, myself included- a lifelong racer and nav. arch.
 
I know there is a high " trickle down " rate. Look at the complete automation and computerazation of everything, since J F K and his moon race program. -----------------------Tras-oceanic racing is a elitist sport. They do not need anyone. Never have and never will.
 
Lorsail said:
I read on the VOR site that the problem on Black Pearl was non structural . I was hoping Cayard would win-I guess if they can fix it he still has a chance..
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well, it will not be sailing like this that he will win:


"1306GMT Pirates broach again in the same place and wipe out yet again. Three out of three for them, allowing movistar into second place. Pirates spinnaker flies out from the mast, they are heading for the beach out of control, and have let the sail fly to try to get the boat on its feet and back under control. Ericsson seem to have broken their outhaul and have had to put in the next reef to get any control of the sail. They are lookig for what points they can out of the race. Pirates are still out of control sailing in the wrong direction. …Josse's team gave Team ABN AMRO two places on the podium. Pirates have thrown away a good chance of second place by their inability to get the gybes right and have to settle for fifth…."
http://www.volvooceanrace.org/index.aspx?bhcp=1
 
Lorsail, it looks that after all Cayard knows how to sail :D even if that canting keel has made him look dumb:

"Paul Cayard ...will sail with caution when he leads The Black Pearl into the Southern Ocean next Monday: not due to iceberg fields or strong winds, rather because of the canting keel troubles which ruined his In Port race.

In breezes up to 40 knots during the In Port race – similar to the conditions they will encounter throughout the 6,100 leg to Melbourne – the Pirates’ stability was compromised by the keel’s failure to swing to windward quickly enough, making a broach inevitable.

“We will be cautious, but it won’t be with regard to the ice but more to do with the boat and the equipment,” Cayard said. “I was blaming it all on myself that night and then I subsequently found out that our keel canting mechanism is far too slow and that’s why we weren’t able to gybe well that day. It’s not been something we have been able to fix in time for the leg.”

But Cayard believes the problem, while being dangerous, is not necessarily going to hinder them to a great extent.

“It’s a bit dangerous not being able to cant your keel quickly and get your stability from one side to the next." ......we can take the spinnaker down to gybe or we can even take the mainsail down to gybe.

“But I think everybody will be exercising some caution and prudence knowing how fragile they (the boats) are. "
http://www.volvooceanrace.org/news/article/2005/december/cayardscounselforcaution/index.aspx



I believe Cayard is wrong. They will sail as fast as they can...till their boats break. Who knows, perhaps one or two can finish the race. That would be about the same percentage as if they were racing with cats:rolleyes:
 
i heard something about the Pirates having lighter hydraulic pumps(not rams) which means they are less powerful and consequently cannot tack the keel as quickly as the other boats. Does anyone else have any info on this?
 
Scary

I can't believe Paul would race in the southern ocean with mechanics that don't work right-shivers my timbers.....
 
2 more boats down in the Volvo. Anybody know who did the engineering of ABN and ING? Was it done by the designers themselves or was it outsourced to others? Who did the keel hydraulics engineering?
 
"...Ericsson stopped racing and turned back with a failure of one keel actuating ram, and then Brasil 1 turned for South Africa with structural failure in the region of the cockpit."

............Like the rest of the fleet, both boats were sailing upwind in about 15 knots of wind, making about 11 knots through the water.
...........
In the prevailing sea conditions the motion of the boat through the water would be abrupt and uncomfortable."


These boats can not stand going to windward, in 15 knots of wind for two days, without breaking?:confused:

Disgusting.:rolleyes:

http://www.volvooceanrace.org/news/article/2006/january/troublehitsthefleet/index.aspx?bhcp=1
 
With that added, all of the Farr boats have had to turn around for some reason (although Movistar's damage is not truly the designer's fault) while none of the other boats have had serious damage. Jaun K may not have inspired confidence in the interviews, but I would rather sail in one of his boats than one of the Farr boats.
 
Bigger part of us knoiws what is it like to sail upwind in 15-30 knots of wind. Personaly O am sailing in baltic sea, were waves aren't very high, but is very chopy. You have two choises, to slow down or to go banging to every wave, I dont think waht these racers would slow down. These boats are extreamly light and powerful, they are like dakar bugies. Guys onboard ericson and brasil1 ppushed their boat too much, or the boats weren't prepaired enough. Sailing downwind is easier, streses to the boat isn't so great, I think these boats which will make it to the south there the eastern winds are blowing will make it to the finish.
 
Volvo 70 Canting-Keel Problems

Sorry if I post something here that has already been covered as I've not been following this subject thread, nor the Volvo race that closely.

I saw this in Scuttlebutt and thought it was rather interesting...the hydraulic ram materials and the ram interactions.
_______________________________________
RAM SHAM AT BOTTOM OF THE WORLD
The failure rate of the boats in the second leg of the Volvo Ocean Race,
from Cape Town to Melbourne, has reached an unacceptable level, with two
boats so badly damaged after three days' racing that they have had to put
into South African ports while the other five hurtle across the grey
wastes of the Southern Ocean, clocking off more than 400 miles a day.

Those who are close to the designers of these boats are critical of the
relatively short time that the organisers provided between issuing the
outline rules for the boats and the starting date of the first leg in
Spain - a matter of 12 months. They say that it did not provide adequate
time for them to design and test the complex systems demanded in these
ocean greyhounds.

Their complaints appear to be confirmed.

The problem for Ericsson Racing is in a broken hydraulic ram... it is
exactly the same damage that she suffered in the South Atlantic earlier,
and on which her shore team spent three intensive weeks of repair and
reconstruction in Cape Town.

Russell Bowler, the engineering partner and president of Farr Yacht
Design, whose firm designed the naval architecture for Ericsson Racing,
indicates that the demands of the sailors is in some ways compromising the
engineering of these boats and contributes to their failures. "Hydraulic
rams," he says, "are in daily use throughout the world in earth-moving
equipment and there are very few failures there."

Sailors are not content to use the chromed steel that is the usual
material for the pistons in the hydraulic equipment and demand lighter
materials, notably titanium. "It is not simply the difference in the
metal, but the way that some of these parts are machined," says Bowler,
"it is that that leaves a lot to be desired."

Bowler suggests that the double-ram system may well be a contributory
factor in the failures and suggests that extra time for testing the boats
may have disclosed this earlier, had the time been available.
Bob Fisher in the Guardian, the full article at
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,1681811,00.html
 
QFB Mike Sanderson/ABN AMRO ONE Leg2 Day9

Here is the answer from ABN1 on the design of these yachts...

Another interesting day as we battle on putting miles on the guys behind who have had a tough time with a cold front. It put up a nice temporary wall between us and them that has enabled us to sneak out to a pretty handy lead, the last 24 hrs has been hectic with our breeze moderating. There have been many sail changes as we work our way through the downwind sails from our smallest sails to our biggest one, then we had the unfortunate situation where a quick repair that we had done on a small hole let go as the big Spinn was re-setting and it blew the whole corner out of the sail and ripped all along the tapes that are on the edge of the sail.

With the new Volvo 70 rule we only carry four downwind sails compared with twice as many in the last race, so it's out with the sewing machine and a few hours later mainly from a big effort from Tony Mutter, the sail is back in the air. I would like to say as good as new but not quite...

I heard through the grape vine that there is a growing concern that these boats are dangerous and that we are being reckless out here. I just want to take this opportunity to say that I will happily sit down with anyone and explain to them the thousands of hours that have gone in to the making of Team ABN AMRO's keel systems as safe as possible. We need the keels to stay where we want them during the race for two reasons, and the good news is that they both go hand in hand. Firstly we need them to stay there for the safety of the guys. But the good news is that you also need them to stay there so that you can keep racing and the team that can finish all the legs without a break down and pick up the points bonus, as all legs count.

So the safety of everyone is at the top of the list no matter how you look at it. Every Volvo 70 that has had a problem so far since the first boat was launched in January last year has got back in to port without assistance. In the Open 60 Solo race that I did last year, three boats had to receive aid from rescue boats, one guy was picked up by a container ship as his carbon keel had snapped and two had to be rescued from the mid Atlantic by chartered support craft with broken masts. Now we are not allowed carbon keels in the Volvo , and the rig weight is adequate that unless you break something then the rig should stay up, whereas in the Open 60's there is a massive rating advantage in having a high modulus mast. In fact there rigs are more Grand Prix then an America's Cup boat. But still like the Volvo 70, the Open 60 is just an amazing high tec race yacht and is the fastest growing offshore class out there at the moment.

People, everyone called for a more exciting boat, both the public and the sailors and guess what we got it to think that these boats have gone out at just 70 feet long and broken the 24 hr record now three times that was set by Mari Cha IV, a boat very dear to my heart. I was involved with it from conception, and the conception that it was built for the purpose of beating records just blows me away...

Volvo has supplied us with a rule that makes just fantastic boats, the fact that they we are having a not so high attrition rate is only the teams and designers fault. The breakage's are all from weight reduction decisions that have been made by either the design team or the racing team.. we all knew the whole time, that we needed a big bulb on the keel to win the race, and we also knew that we needed to finish the legs to win the race, and it will be he who has walked that fine line correctly at the end of the day that will come out on top and we’re not going to know who that is for another seven months yet.

For now, we are through the last ice way-point of this leg and during the night we passed the first scoring gate to score a very hard earned 3.5 points.. so it celebration time !!! out with the chocolate..

Talk soon

Cheers

Mike Sanderson

Skipper ABN AMRO 1
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From Volvo Ocean Race
 
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